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i like the eldar alot, except that the main troop weapon -suriken catapult- has 12 inch range. So, in my opinion, the eldar troops will be massacred before they get in range, and then they will just get assalted to wipe them out.
The wave serpent is useful, but costs too much. <<don't post individual points costs please>> Any useful helps or hints are much appriciated in my endevor.
It might just be that since i have the 3rd edition rule book as my only guide, i am confused as hell to most of what you are saying. so explaining things to me, and saying what they do, including how to get clos to the enemy, and any other hints would be nice.
Fear not the light for I am the darkness, fear not the darkness for I am the light. Fear what you do not know, for that is I.
I am niether the light nor the darkness, the good or the evil, I am the omnipotent force that drives them, the force that controls them. The force that you do not see, but is always there.
I am neither living nor dead, alive or dying, but i am the existence, the existence of what you did, and of what you did not do.
If you believe the basic weapon sucks, then you'd be kinda correct. In the new edition it isn't anything special, so you oculd put up with that, or avoid them! You could max out Rangers for your troops, or go Beil-Tan, Iyanden, Alaitoc or Saim-Hann and be rid of them in exchange for each Craftworld's "signature" unit.
The Wave Serpent costs a lot, but when you consider it's armour and special rules, not to mention it's speed, it's well worth the cost.
You cannot win, for to fight us is to give us power.
The serpent is not just a transport like the rhino, or a transport capable of spraying a little coverfire aroung like the rhino, it is a fully frown tank! If you equip it with TL BLs, you have yourself a nasty tank-hunter that actuall makes up for its BS3, and if you equip it with a shuriken cannon, you can remove troops too. I love it!
And yeah, shuriken catapults are like the worst GI weapon in the entire game. I donĀ“t understand why we canĀ“t upgrade them to lasguns, the whole "laser gun"-style just seems more eldar then imperial, and auto-rifles would fit IG troopers much better anyway. I know that a lasgun is only S3 and rapid fire, but the 24" range more than make up for it. At least you would be able to shoot before you get assaulted.. Only take guardian defenders as a troop choice for the heavy weapon platform, and donĀ“t ever take avengers (sorry nebulas). They are cool, but their weapon just sucks.
Iluvanos, I was in the same boat a couple of months ago, during a time when I considered starting up nearly every single 40k army at some point. I jumped around from race to race, not sure which one to field. When I finally settled on one, I would buy a few minis, then quickly lose interest in it for one reason or another. After all this time, I have finally come back to Eldar, and you know, they are the only race I'm 100% sure on.
They are not for everyone, but they are one of the strongest, without a doubt. Don't let the apparent fragility of their troops discourage you. The Eldar are often referred to as the "thinking man's army". To win with Eldar, you require a great deal of tactical skill and forethought. Some races (SM, for instance), just require routine, tried and true tactics and good army lists to win. With Eldar, every game can be unpredictable. Also, one of the greatest complements I've heard in regards to the Eldar was from a Space Marine player who claimed Eldar were the worst and toughest enemy to play against because "until your opponent puts their Eldar army on the table, you have no idea what to expect."
What this player was talking about was Eldar versatility. Army lists for this race are not set in stone. There is an over-abbundance of excellent units, they just have to be used properly. If you don't like the Guardians, you don't have to field them. Storm Guardians are like assault marines (minus the awesome armour save, of course), but they have pistols and CCW's, so that takes your worries about the ShuriCat away. Also, if you field an army using the Biel-Tan or Iyanden rules, you can make Aspect Warriors or Wraithguard your basic troop. Both are far tougher and have better weapons. In addition, you could take Ulthwe, giving your Guardians a mild stat line boost for no extra points cost. Saim-hann essentially makes your basic trooper a Jetbike mounted guardian, and Alaitoc fields a variety of Snipers. Even if you stick with vanilla Eldar, you can still go with Dire Avengers (basically beefed up Guardians) or just have few Guardians to begin with (keep in mind that you only need 2 compulsory troops choices, and those could be Rangers, if you like longer ranged weapons). Also, Guardians are good unto themselves, but they just don't look like it. Many Eldar players argue over the effectiveness of Guardians, but any Eldar vet will tell you that Guardians can win games on their own. First of all, you can hook them up with the aforementioned Wave Serpent, which is admittedly expensive but probably the #1 best transport in the whole game. Its twin-linked weapon makes it a full-blown tank, plus its very hard to destroy. Guardians can also take heavy weapons platforms, which basically turns them into slightly less-effective SM Devastator squads. And finally, although the range is only 12", keep in mind two things: first of all, the Guardians, like most Eldar, can fleet of foot, which means they can travel upwards of 12" in a single turn. This gets you in range fast. Secondly, the ShuriCat is Assault 2. Compared to the Space Marine bolter, this is far better in one respect. It means you can run into range, fire your weapons twice, and still assault. That equals a ton of attacks, so long as you can get into range. Rapid fire weapons mean you can either shoot or assault, but not both.
I know Guardians might not seem impressive, but believe me, this is deceptive. Their proper use just requires a different way of thinking. Can you march them right up the field like Space Marines? No, because they're not Space Marines.
Just don't dismiss the Eldar as a great race. I have heard of many instances where players fielding Eldar armies win at Grand Tournaments...maybe even more often than players with any other army. Reasons being: Eldar armies are hard to use, but if you find your niche and use them effectively, they are one of the most powerful races in the game. That, and the previously mentioned Eldar versatility. You can build your army into anything you want. You could potentially field a horde army with hundreds of Guardians, or you could have a small, elite army full of specialists. You could have an all powerful Seer Council (largely regarded as the most survivable HQ unit in the game, above and beyond even Hive Tyrants, Grey Knight Grand Masters, or even the C'Tan). You could give your army plenty of static artillery, or make them close combat monsters. You could field a mechanized army, with tons of Wave Serpents, Vypers, and Falcons (one of the best tanks in the game, tied with the Tau Hammerhead), or you could outfit your troops with lightning-fast jetbikes.
You can do all these things with Eldar, and that makes their shelf-life one of the longest of all 40k races. If you choose another race, say Tau or Space Marines, for instance, you must include some basic troops, be they the firewarriors or tactical marines. To not do so would invite disaster. For the Eldar, you don't even have to include their basic footsoldiers - now that's versatile. This ability to customize your army well beyond that of most 40k armies will keep your Eldar playing fresh for years. Any other race, and you will have mastered their tactics after a while, making playing them predictable and even somewhat boring. Eldar are never boring because you have to really work to earn every victory.
The Eldar are a finesse army. Just don't ignore them because you don't like Guardians --- they aren't that bad once you get used them, plus you have many more options to fielding them. If you learn to play well with Eldar, you will have one of the strongest and most adaptable armies on the tabletop. You just have to wield them more like a scalpel than a club.
Well said :o Houston, you rock!
:blush: Thanks Farseer Sareld, though you don't have to be so generous with your complements. I know based on some of your posts that you and I like to field rather different Eldar units in our armies, and this just goes on further to prove the point that an Eldar army can do whatever you want it to do. There is really no wrong way to play it, and its tactics are only limited by the mind that conceives of them.
Comparing the Eldar to the Blood Angels, for instance, we can see the difference. With BA, there's really only one effective way to play them, with some leeway to change tactics a little. But generally we know they are an assault-oriented army. A BA army might be able to ge played with an emphasis on shooting, but it won't play very well and will not capitalize on that army's special rules.
Eldar armies have so many special rules and ways to play that a dozen different types of Eldar armies or more will all have an equally high chance of not only winning, but at completely pulling the rug out from under your unsuspecting opponent.
Its fun to have pointy ears in 40k...
I agree largely with what you are saying but not completely, thre are wrong ways to play eldar, the varriety can work against you as well as for you
Everything you have been told is a lie!
Eldar are definatly one of the harder armies to use. I lost for about 3 months straight before i learned how to really play them and now I dont think ive lost a 1v1 in like 15ish games or more against around 10 different opponents
I do disagree with the comment about storm guardians being like assault marines. They not only do not have the armor save, they also dont have the WS, BS, LD, S, T, jump packs, sargeant options, etc.. Storm guardians are nothing more than imperial guard squads really, do not think they can assault like a marine squad
I rarely use guardians because I play Biel Tan. However 40 pt units are good for taking objectives because people ignore them
Eldar also have the *best* tanks in the game.
Your army with eldar can either be a complete joke or something that people dont even want to play, just gotta learn
The only reason I was comparing Storm Guardians to Assault Marines is because they both carry a pistol and CCW, so they fulfill the same role.
And I agree. Small Guardian squads can be a god-send. When compared to an entire army full of great targets, Guardians often get overlooked by your opponent, allowing you to use them in subversive ways.
And good point, Cheredanine. Over specialization, unless carefully micro-managed, can lead to disaster with an Eldar army. And, of course, any army can be played wrong if you choose an army list that isn't balanced or is full of units that don't work well together. That, and you can play it wrong if you just don't use good tactics. But for any reasonably smart tactician who does at least a little homework on the Eldar before drafting his army list, there is a plethora of options for an Eldar army, and even rather strange or unusual army lists can lead to victory.