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Thread: De Vs Tau

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    Karrot Dialysis karantalsis's Avatar
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    Hello you nice people in the Tau forum, I'm just wondering if an army I have designed for tounament play (1000 points) would do well agianst a Tau force, below is a link to the army list and accompanying tactics.

    DE Army list

    Remember this is a tournament army and so will not be playing against soemone who has tailored their list to face DE, but against those with an 'all comers' list.


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    LO's Shadow Captain Lost Nemesis's Avatar
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    Originally posted by karantalsis@Mar 1 2005, 07:11
    Hello you nice people in the Tau forum, I'm just wondering if an army I have designed for tounament play (1000 points) would do well agianst a Tau force, below is a link to the army list and accompanying tactics.

    DE Army list

    Remember this is a tournament army and so will not be playing against soemone who has tailored their list to face DE, but against those with an 'all comers' list.
    [snapback]341336[/snapback]
    Well, that would depend...how often do you play Tau players that might be in this tourney?

    Most players don't have lots of experience facing DE, and I'm pretty sure you're one of the more experienced DE players from back when I surfed that forum pretty much all the time.

    I can see you doing pretty well, just watch out for Hammerhead submunition shots - they are a nasty piece of work on any 4+ or worse army.

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    LO's Shadow Captain Lost Nemesis's Avatar
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    Alright, I'm going to try to get into an in-depth basis here. I was hoping some other, more experienced Tau players would help you out, but since this topic is being all but ignored I think I'm going to have to do my best.

    HQ: Your Dracon looks fine. Agoniser will really help vs. the higher T battlesuits if you get into CC, and vs. everything else you'd be wounding on a 4+ anyways so it doesn't matter. I'd recommend re-rolling misses for your combat drug, or +1 attack. The +1 S/WS drugs don't matter much, since you'll be wounding on 4+ anyways and they have pretty sad WS. If he hits the Tau lines, they're in for a world of pain as they'll have difficulty hitting the higher WS, they have horrible I, and they only have average S so will only wound him 50% of the time.

    Troops: I might be reading wrong, but I only see one sniper squad? It says there are 5 Dark Lances in your army, yet I only see the two in that single sniper squad (plus two from the Raiders - don't rely on these, too vulnerable). You might get hurt in this area - any footslogging troops will need to be given very nice cover and/or be extremely spread out. Rapid Firing Pulse Rifles will tear your troops into little pieces, and the Hammerhead submunitions shot will bring a load of hurt onto tightly cramped troops. If you can get these guys into assault vs. Fire Warriors or use them to divert the bigger weapons, then I can see them being useful. Your Raider squad, however, is going to be extremely vulnerable - Crisis Battlesuits will be superb for your enemy at taking your Raiders down, and even the simple Fire Warriors have a decent chance of shooting them down. Turbo Boosting and trying to get a 2nd turn assault are key against Tau. I can't recall the AP value of a Splinter Cannon, but the sheer amount of shots might deal some damage to the Fire Warriors. However, if you need to FoF in order to get the assault, do it - I would never risk them rapid firing into your lines.

    Elites: If you can get the quick assault, then do it. Again, the Raider is incredibly vulnerable as the weakest guns in the Tau army can damage them. However, if you can get this squad and your Dracon into CC nothing will be able to stand up to them. A squad at WS1 isn't going to hit very often, and you have the decent saves to help you out in CC. Your Dracon and the Succubus will give you the armour penetrating power you need so that the Tau lines don't get their armour saves.

    Heavy Support: This is the biggest flaw in your list that I can see. A single tank that you sort of rely on, it seems. Incredibly fragile, I would tell you to beware just about anything - Crisis Suits, namely, but a big threat is a Deep Striking squad of Gun Drones. These guys will tear into that rear armour with no mercy. Keep it on the move and use it in an anti-infantry role, and it should do you well.

    The things I must stress a lot vs. Tau are cover, cover, and assault. Cover will save you dearly, especially for your Sniper squad - Tau weapons will almost always negate your weak armour save, so cover would be your only chance vs. casualties. Block LOS as much as you can, and beware - I can almost guarantee that those Raiders of your's, and maybe even your Ravager, will be easily dealth with. Every single thing in the Tau army can damage these vehicles, and since they're open topped (and carrying precious cargo) the Tau player will put them high on their priority list (at least, I would). Watch out for Railguns, as they will put the easy hurt on your vehicles, and the Hammerhead submunitions, again, will be used to devastating effect on your troops. As soon as you can assault, get it done - DE strike quick and hard, and I don't think any Tau units bar, maybe, Kroot in cover can stand up to them. Getting that Dracon and Wyches into CC should be a priority, as I can see them doing massive damage in the Tau lines. Don't get caught in a rapid fire zone - your forces will get torn to part. They are fragile, and Tau have the awesome fire power that will tear a force like that apart.

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    Karrot Dialysis karantalsis's Avatar
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    First off thanks for your input.


    Originally posted by Lost Nemesis+Mar 1 2005, 18:51--><div class='quotetop'>QUOTE(Lost Nemesis &#064; Mar 1 2005, 18:51)</div><div class='quotemain'>Alright, I&#39;m going to try to get into an in-depth basis here. I was hoping some other, more experienced Tau players would help you out, but since this topic is being all but ignored I think I&#39;m going to have to do my best.

    HQ: Your Dracon looks fine. Agoniser will really help vs. the higher T battlesuits if you get into CC, and vs. everything else you&#39;d be wounding on a 4+ anyways so it doesn&#39;t matter. I&#39;d recommend re-rolling misses for your combat drug, or +1 attack. The +1 S/WS drugs don&#39;t matter much, since you&#39;ll be wounding on 4+ anyways and they have pretty sad WS. If he hits the Tau lines, they&#39;re in for a world of pain as they&#39;ll have difficulty hitting the higher WS, they have horrible I, and they only have average S so will only wound him 50% of the time.
    [snapback]341858[/snapback]
    [/b]


    Thanks, I like this HQ

    Originally posted by Lost Nemesis@Mar 1 2005, 18:51
    Troops: I might be reading wrong, but I only see one sniper squad? It says there are 5 Dark Lances in your army, yet I only see the two in that single sniper squad (plus two from the Raiders - don&#39;t rely on these, too vulnerable). You might get hurt in this area - any footslogging troops will need to be given very nice cover and/or be extremely spread out. Rapid Firing Pulse Rifles will tear your troops into little pieces, and the Hammerhead submunitions shot will bring a load of hurt onto tightly cramped troops. If you can get these guys into assault vs. Fire Warriors or use them to divert the bigger weapons, then I can see them being useful. Your Raider squad, however, is going to be extremely vulnerable - Crisis Battlesuits will be superb for your enemy at taking your Raiders down, and even the simple Fire Warriors have a decent chance of shooting them down. Turbo Boosting and trying to get a 2nd turn assault are key against Tau. I can&#39;t recall the AP value of a Splinter Cannon, but the sheer amount of shots might deal some damage to the Fire Warriors. However, if you need to FoF in order to get the assault, do it - I would never risk them rapid firing into your lines.
    [snapback]341858[/snapback]
    The footslogging squad, being large and pouring out shots I hope will distract a fair amount of fire from the raiders (there are three raiders, hence 5 dark lances) and your right there is only 1 sniper squad, although I think a dissie will work well against most Tau units below 1000 points? Whats the AV on the transports (I can&#39;t imagine their being that many tanks, and if there are their will eb very litle else I&#39;d guess) Tactics wise, that sounds cool, I will try to ensure a 1st/2nd turn assault depending on mission paramaters, cover and deployment

    Originally posted by Lost Nemesis@Mar 1 2005, 18:51
    Elites: If you can get the quick assault, then do it. Again, the Raider is incredibly vulnerable as the weakest guns in the Tau army can damage them. However, if you can get this squad and your Dracon into CC nothing will be able to stand up to them. A squad at WS1 isn&#39;t going to hit very often, and you have the decent saves to help you out in CC. Your Dracon and the Succubus will give you the armour penetrating power you need so that the Tau lines don&#39;t get their armour saves.
    [snapback]341858[/snapback]
    I am planning to attack different squads with the Dracon and wyches, to ensure I tie up as much firepower as possible.

    Originally posted by Lost Nemesis@Mar 1 2005, 18:51
    Heavy Support: This is the biggest flaw in your list that I can see. A single tank that you sort of rely on, it seems. Incredibly fragile, I would tell you to beware just about anything - Crisis Suits, namely, but a big threat is a Deep Striking squad of Gun Drones. These guys will tear into that rear armour with no mercy. Keep it on the move and use it in an anti-infantry role, and it should do you well.
    [snapback]341858[/snapback]
    Not really got much choice, its the most resilient thing I can take *Shrug* if I can get a LoS to a squad of battlesuits it will make its points back quick enough *malicious grin*.

    <!--QuoteBegin-Lost Nemesis
    @Mar 1 2005, 18:51
    The things I must stress a lot vs. Tau are cover, cover, and assault. Cover will save you dearly, especially for your Sniper squad - Tau weapons will almost always negate your weak armour save, so cover would be your only chance vs. casualties. Block LOS as much as you can, and beware - I can almost guarantee that those Raiders of your&#39;s, and maybe even your Ravager, will be easily dealth with. Every single thing in the Tau army can damage these vehicles, and since they&#39;re open topped (and carrying precious cargo) the Tau player will put them high on their priority list (at least, I would). Watch out for Railguns, as they will put the easy hurt on your vehicles, and the Hammerhead submunitions, again, will be used to devastating effect on your troops. As soon as you can assault, get it done - DE strike quick and hard, and I don&#39;t think any Tau units bar, maybe, Kroot in cover can stand up to them. Getting that Dracon and Wyches into CC should be a priority, as I can see them doing massive damage in the Tau lines. Don&#39;t get caught in a rapid fire zone - your forces will get torn to part. They are fragile, and Tau have the awesome fire power that will tear a force like that apart.
    [snapback]341858[/snapback]
    [/quote]

    Pretty much plan to hit them hard and fast up one falnk, hopefully that will work.... and I will take your pointers on what to watch for on board.

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    LO's Shadow Captain Lost Nemesis's Avatar
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    Originally posted by karantalsis@Mar 2 2005, 14:59
    First off thanks for your input.
    Thanks, I like this HQ
    The footslogging squad, being large and pouring out shots I hope will distract a fair amount of fire from the raiders (there are three raiders, hence 5 dark lances) and your right there is only 1 sniper squad, although I think a dissie will work well against most Tau units below 1000 points? Whats the AV on the transports (I can&#39;t imagine their being that many tanks, and if there are their will eb very litle else I&#39;d guess) Tactics wise, that sounds cool, I will try to ensure a 1st/2nd turn assault depending on mission paramaters, cover and deployment
    I am planning to attack different squads with the Dracon and wyches, to ensure I tie up as much firepower as possible.
    Not really got much choice, its the most resilient thing I can take *Shrug* if I can get a LoS to a squad of battlesuits it will make its points back quick enough *malicious grin*.
    Pretty much plan to hit them hard and fast up one falnk, hopefully that will work.... and I will take your pointers on what to watch for on board.
    [snapback]342445[/snapback]
    The transports have an AV12, and there might very well be lots of them. It depends on if your Tau players have looked at all at the Mechanised Tau Tactica available on the internet, and which is being used widely in these forums. Lots of tanks might hurt you a little bit.

    I don&#39;t think that the footslogging squad would divert too much attention, simply because 1) if the Tau player knows anything about DE, they&#39;d go for the Raiders and 2) it&#39;s only one squad, not to mention one squad that the basic Fire Warrior can handle.

    Vehicles are always on the hit list for a Tau player, as Vehicles get enemies into CC faster. And since there is a chance there will be lots of Fire Warriors, your Raiders are exceptionally vulnerable - S5 shots isn&#39;t anything to laugh at with AV10 skimmers.

    As for hitting the flank, it will probably work. Just try not to get into a death zone, basically where you can&#39;t get into anywhere for protection/cover, giving a perfect LOS for the rest of the Tau force at your guys.

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    Don&#39;t let a Fire Warrior team rapid fire into your Raiders or Warriors, they will get shredded. A pulse rifle will wound a DE Warrior on a 2+ with no save and can penetrate Raider armour.

    Don&#39;t let your Ravager come into line of sight with any rail guns, it won&#39;t last long and its the only thing you have that can shrug off pulse fire and thus have some messure of protection when operating within range of FW sqauds.

    Don&#39;t let your Warriors get counter-charged by Kroot. There is a 73% chance that a Kroot warrior will survive a DE warriors attacks and a 66% chance that a Kroot warrior will kill a DE warrior if the Kroot get the charge. If you charge the Kroot then the DE warrior has the edge, but only just. It is also very likely that the Kroot squad will be larger than any of your DE warrior squads, and thats before you start loosing warriors to Pulse fire&#33; Tau players moan alot about Kroot, but dont let that fool you into thinking that they are not effective for the points value. They can shoot prety well too.

    Tau players will target your most mobile units first. Dont rely on the players inexperiance playing vs DE and hope he wont shoot up your Raiders. One of the guidlines of using a Tau army is "if in dought, shoot the fastest things you can see"

    Beware Stealth teams. A 6 man stealth team will kill 7-8 warriors in 1 turn of shooting or turn a Raider into swiss chease. They also have the ability to moove, shoot then moove again, meaning they could well do a drive by on a sqaud of warriors, decimate them, then speed off behind cover befor you can fire back. they can deep strike too.

    Rail guns will auto-penitrate your raiders if they hit, avoid rail guns.

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    Karrot Dialysis karantalsis's Avatar
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    Thanks for the pointers all of you, thats brillaint . I have one more little favour to ask of you.

    Looking past the tournament with the 1000 point list I may be going to enter one of the larger UK tournaments, so have a second list which I wonder if you would mind looking at in a similar way, I think this ones pretty solid, but its quite different to the last.

    (This is the last one promise )

    1850 DE

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    Originally posted by karantalsis@Mar 3 2005, 11:28
    Thanks for the pointers all of you, thats brillaint . I have one more little favour to ask of you.

    Looking past the tournament with the 1000 point list I may be going to enter one of the larger UK tournaments, so have a second list which I wonder if you would mind looking at in a similar way, I think this ones pretty solid, but its quite different to the last.

    (This is the last one promise )

    1850 DE
    [snapback]343223[/snapback]
    Well, it looks pretty solid to me and you&#39;d get much more insight from the guys in the DE forum.

    I&#39;d just recommend watching out for most of the things we&#39;ve said already, and keep those Raiders safe. The WWP strategy should work vs. Tau pretty well, I&#39;d think, as not very many things really are that fast in the Tau list to block the portal.

    As long as you can get those Raiders into assault range, it looks great. Though, I am wondering why no Ravagers? No matter what other people say, that thing is a nice gold mine with those weapons, and will tear into Tau troopers - the only problem, of course, is the ease in which Tau can take out your vehicles.

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    tip use wwpi played with my tau manytimes against dark eldar and my experiense is that wwp works very good if you let come a talos out of it the tau lines are screwed dark lances work very good to against the suits s8 that means instant kill
    very nice not for me

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    As far as I know he uses the WWP frequently I am not the only one wo is using WWP&#39;s in the world ya know. But still 30 footsloggers with 2 WWP&#39;s should be enough to get up close and unleash 2 talos that get those tau begging on there knees to live ^^.


    However with that statement out of the way, I would say listen to ArchonBjorn. He has a really good tendency to not say stupid things and give bad advice.
    Learn from yesterday.
    Live for today
    Hope for tomorrow
    -Archonbjorn-

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