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  1. #1
    Member Torturer's Avatar
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    i have dark angel army and now have decided to try saim hann. Any of the experianced eldar players please offer your tips to a fellow eldar player

    Forget your past life. From this day on you are simply a Dark Angel, nothing else is of consequence. The chapter is all that matters.


    A good general does not lead an army to destruction just because he knows it will follow


    CHAOS!!!!!!!!

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  3. #2
    LO Zealot Sareld's Avatar
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    108 (x4)

    Well, I assume that you know the saim-hann special rules, right? If ya do, I´ll notice that saim-hann is all about fast attack, and that you can select fast attack choices in stead of troops.

    I don´t know how much you know of the eldar fast attack choices, but the key to success to saim-hann is vypers. The more you can squeeze in on you list, the better. Don´t bother with shining spears or guardian jetbikes, they will not get their points back.

    Second, your elite and heavy choices will be limited, so you´ll have to consider them carefully.

    The main weapon is speed. Dart around the battlefield, and never be where your enemy wants you to, cuz if he gets a clear shot on you, you´ll be dead in turn 3.

  4. #3
    The Fallen Cheredanine's Avatar
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    411 (x8)

    Ah my favourite, OK
    As Sareld said the core of Saim Hann is its Fast attack, specifically jet bikes and Vypers, you can blend them in all sorts of ways (88 jet bikes and no vypers, 18 vypers and no jetbikes or somewhere in between). Dont be fooled into taking advice from non-Saim Hann Eldar players on bikes and vypers, they live in a differnt world with different tactics.

    General consensus: Bikes bad, Vypers good, but this does not necessarily hold true.

    Vypers: these are basically mobile weapons platforms. for Saim hann the following are the basic premises for vypers:

    1. use as many slots as you can and keep the unit size as small as possible (eg if you got 6 vypers, take 6 squads of 1 not 2 squads of 3)
    2. dont waste points on upgrades other than weaponry, if you got the points for upgrades - take another vyper, you are dealing with a target rich environment. dont worry bout losing them, go for the imperial guard approach.
    3. move, move move, move, every single turn move 6 to 12 inches, unless you desperately want to change possition, then move as far as you need to, but never less than 6 inches.
    4. reach - you are vulnerable to small arms fire, but most weapons you fit have a longer range than small arms, ue cover, speed and the whole table to keep yourself in range and in line of sight but as far away or hidden as possible
    5. weapons:
    OK there are 4 main weapons for vypers:
    Bright lance - anti tank, this is a one shot weapon and best put on things without BS3, for all my other Eldar armys I will not put bright lances on vypers, but for Saim hann you have to bite the bullet
    Star cannon - anti infantry (and possibly light vehicle) - really for heavy infantry (marines, CSM, necron) this cuts swathes through them
    Scatter laser - also anti infantry but lacks the AP of star cannon, more appropriate VS lighter infantry (IG, DE) but the star cannon is almost as capable against these too so I have no vypers fitted with these
    EML - ok this is a half way house, generally I get to a point when say I got 8 vypers, I got 2 BL and 4 SC and I am not sure if I want the last 2 to be anti inf or anti armour, the EML is the solution to it, it is capable of taking down any armour although not quite as good as the BL, its plasma missiles, whilst not as effective against powered armour as star cannon, do cause pinning and can be usefull.

    Upgrade: for my star cannon vypers, whereever possible, I take shuriken cannon upgrade, it gives you an extra 3 strength 6 shots which, whilst not ultra effective against powered armour, is nasty vs lesser mortals and vastly increases your abilities vs light vehicles (eg raiders, rhinos, chimeras)

    squads of vipers should be armed with the same main weapon

    Bikes: OK everyone start whinging - expensive, ineffective etc etc.
    The only realy effective use of the troop jetbike squad I have used was to get just within 12 inches on the move phase, shoot like mad, then drop back, rapid fire weapons were stuffed, but the change in 4th ed scuppers this tactic, you can still try it but odds are they will be able to match you shot for shot. Shuriken cannon are nice, take a squad of 3 bikes, upgrade one to a shrieker (shuriken cannon) and you have a long range, highly mobile sniper force, but to be honest for those points, I would rather have vypers. Adding warlock can add effect but there is some contention as to weather the Warlock canuse a singing spear, I would sugget, based on recent info from GW the answer is yes, which means a squad of 3 bikes with a warlock becomes and excellent tank hunter.
    points to note: dont under estimate these guys, with an 18 inch charg they can open up with their shuriken catapults and weaken off units before the charge, just dont expect them to go toe to toe with marines
    Wild Riders:
    OK Saim Hann special HQ is a gift, sure they are expensive, but I always take a wild rider chief, with a power weapon and a shuriken cannon. whilst he isnt a chaos lord he is still very capable in combat, start adding a bodyguard with shuriken cannon upgrades on every other bike and a family banner and you have a really nasty unit, my usual top end is 6 bikes plus the chief, this gives 21 str6 shots, plus 12 str 4 shots with re rolls, followed by the charge with re rolls to hit. The last time I fielded this unit was against night lords, the demon prince was on a bike with a 4 biker chosen body guard of aspiring champions, a fast assult based unit by anyones standard, one star cannon vyper shot at the squad and then the hq shot and charged, wiped out the chaos HQ without loss (admittedly a bunch of CSMs then charged into me and eventually wiped out the squad but I was well up on points).
    you can further augment the squad by having a farseer on a bike join it, give him fortune and those 3+ saves get rerolls!

    Others:
    I try and keep my Saim Hann fast and fluffy, the nxt thing I add is a Falcon, with star cannon, spirit stones and holofield and upgrade the shuriken cannon, this is a gunship spewing 6 str 6 shots half of which ignore even marine saves and 1-3 str 9 shots.

    To add more, some people suggest adding guardians but once you do this you start to build static fire lines, the point of Saim han is avoid this (see below) so I dont.

    The only other unit I currently add is swooping hawk, a squad of 5 including the exarch with web of skulls, shuriken pistol and sustained assult, the unit is expensive and not hugely effective, but I love the minis, if can move fast and fits the army theme, I am considering adding spiders as they have speed but never really liked them due to their pants AP

    Stratergy: the point of Saim Hann used effectively is manouverability. With the exception of one or 2 armies (white scars, raven wing and the odd marine army using traits) there is no other army like it. Dont take foot models, dont take static fire lines, after the first turn you dont own any part of the table permenantly, you should move all the time, try and stay put side your opponents reach, dont worry about splitting your army, spread it out as much as possible, it means if he concentrates his fire, he will over compensate. Try and make it like your opponent is fighting a cloud, his rhino load of bezerks zooms up the field and gets out the rhino, by the time he has the chance to charge, you have no units within 18 inches.

    This tends to pull people, particularly assult armies, all over the field and you can pick them off piecemeal. Even normal bikes can usually find targets to charge and beat by turn 4.

    The worst nightmare is a discilined general with a plan and a shooty army (IG and to a lesser degree Tau), even then though if you load one side of the board he will tend to move his fire line away from th other side which will allow you to get around the ungaurded flank and get into his deployment zone, once you are there most generals will panic, the plan will go out the window and he will start to move to get better fire possitions, at which point you tease him out and again pick him off peacemeal


    Hope that helps

    Chered
    Everything you have been told is a lie!


  5. #4
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    Cheredanine, that's probably the best summary of a Saim Hann army that I've seen to date. Well done. You're one of the few people that doesn't criticise Siam Hann as an army that is incredibly difficult to win with, while still pointing out how 4th Edition hasn't helped us a whole lot (Rapid Fire rules come to mind).

    What I feel does need pointing out though is that it is generally agreed that Jetbikes are a bit overpriced. Considering the short range of their weapon, and their poor BS (which isn't so bad with twin-linked catapults, but with a single cannon can hurt), they are probably worth less than one pays for them.

    Of course, that doesn't mean they're useless. They can be used to tie up other units if they're needed to, and add a bit of bulk to the army with JUST enough killing power that you can't just ignore them. They harass while the Vypers and Falcon obliterate.

  6. #5
    The Fallen Cheredanine's Avatar
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    411 (x8)

    Thanks Tempest,
    I agree with your point and it is what makes the more hard core power gamers veer towards 18 vypers, I play Saim Hann for fun as well as to seed confusion against cocky players that discount them but dont really undersand them

    I live in the fantasy world where the new eldar codex drops the points cost of jet bikes and makes shuriken weaponry rending, ho hum
    Everything you have been told is a lie!


  7. #6
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    I have recently started a Saim hann force (I have about 1000 points so far) and I have found Guardian jetbikes to be a lot more useful than most people give them credit for. One good tactic I have found is to turbo a unit into the enemy deployment zone (preferably behind cover) and therefore force the enemy to expose the rear of his armoured units (he either sticks with his battle line in which case the turbod unit shoots the rear of his tank next turn, or he turns to face the threat exposing himself to one of your other units). Its very amusing to see the incredulous looks when the supposedly useless jetbikes blow up his expensive predator/falcon etc.

    By the way, are you sure that wild riders can all take Shuricannon upgrades? I thought it was only 50% of the squad.

  8. #7
    Member Torturer's Avatar
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    Anything i should get first(vipers/jetbikes)? im going this weekend and are thinking about getting some of this stuff. also is ther a model for the wild rider chief? right now i m thinking about a 500- 100pt list and wondering if i should use a farseer or wild rider as hq
    Forget your past life. From this day on you are simply a Dark Angel, nothing else is of consequence. The chapter is all that matters.


    A good general does not lead an army to destruction just because he knows it will follow


    CHAOS!!!!!!!!

  9. #8
    LO Zealot Sareld's Avatar
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    108 (x4)

    You´ll have to convery the wild-rider yourself, but it is not that hard. I would actually think that converting a farseer on to a jetbike would be a lot harder.

    I would go for the vypers first.. they are wonderful models, that I really enjoy assembling/painting. I am working on two at the moment, they are sweet

  10. #9
    The Fallen Cheredanine's Avatar
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    411 (x8)

    Tempest, sorry if you infered that all wild riders can take Shuriken cannon upgrade -you are correct on your ratio

    Torturer:

    The only Saim Hann specific unit they ever made was a wild rider clan, nice boxed set - I still have it, but it is only 5 standard bikers and some unusual decals.

    My wild rider chief is converted as follows: bike: standard shrieker jet bike (bike with cannon), fitted with a pair of wings off an old epic phantom titan. legs - standard, budy - eldar guardian (all my saim hann bikes have standard guardian bodies and heads as well as one arm off the storm guardian sprue with either shuriken catapult or CCW). Right arm - standard bike, left arm - banshee W power sword, head off a guardian sprue without a helmet - remodeled with gree stuff hair

    As for buying - general advice - buy jet bikes with shuriken cannon, they come with the shuriken catapult as well adn then you can use the cannon to upgrade vypers or falcons.

    If you are buying vypers you need to change the heavy weapon, I purchased mine from mail order, but now the new wave serpent is out, if you buy one you get spare heavy weapons

    Chered
    Everything you have been told is a lie!


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