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Can't figure how weapon Str, Armor saves and Armor penitration work WH 40k
I cant figure out how to do armor saves and what armor penitration does or what weapon Str signafies. When I play its with my freinds who have the rule book and they just tells me if things work or not (one of them is honest and makes sure I get the truth). Now I want to run a few practice matches using my own troops to test some stratigies to use agenst them (and in a local torrny).
My Tau Fire Warriors have Armor 1 (the Shas'ui has 2) and their Pulse Rifle have Str & AP 5. I know how BS works so thats non-issue.
My Kroot Carnivores have Armor 1 and their Kroot Rilfes have Str 4 & AP 6. The rilfes also count as having an addtional close assult weapon, what does that mean and how does a characters strenght effect that?
What do I need to roll to see if the Tau warrior injures the Kroot and visa versa?
Can someone explain how it works to me?
PS: I bought some of my fire warrios second hand and 2 are stuck with some 2 antena thing in their hands, is that a drone controler? If its on the model does it have to count cause I cant cut it out.?
Last edited by Osaria; March 26th, 2005 at 15:24.
first the ap value.
an ap of 5 means everythig which need a 5+ to save against a weapon fails automaticly. it ignores armor.
6 means it ignores a 6+ save.
generally he lower that number the better.
those armor you refer to isn't armor, but the numbers of attack.
some extra options from weapons can modify that, but in close combat it is that number to start with.
for instance the pulse rifle is a rapid fire weapon, which means it may fire twice up to 12" or once to its max range 48" ,if he doesn't move. he may not assault into cc if he shot, or may not shoot if he wishes to go into close combat.
data ws bs s t w i a ld sv
Please do not post unit stats - Knape
the shooting phase:
choose a valid target
roll to hit
roll to wound
roll to save
you need to look at the balistic skill for shooting.
you need to look up the strenght of the weapon, not the one mentioned in the statslist of a char. The one in the stat list is the pysical str of a char.
A tau rifle has a strenght of 5
you need to compare that to the toughness of a char you hit. in this example its a kroot with a toughness of 3.
using the strenght/ toughness damage chart, makes that your tau needs to roll a 2+ to wound the kroot. In reverse the kroot needs to roll a 3+ to wound given his kroot rifle is only str 4 against a toughness of 3.
see it as the kroot shooting a dart to a tau, which will only be a pinprick, and the tau shooting an arrow to the kroot, which hasa greater chance of killing him.
use the value from the sv column.
there can be deviations from it because of additional rules, equipment or cover.
the extra attack of the kroot.
their guns are fitted with blade like protrusions, increasing their effectiveness in cc.
hitting a vehicle.
those are better armored.
the system is a bit different.
roll normally to hit
when hit, roll a dice and add the value to the str of the weapon.
if less the armor value, it's been ineffective.
equal is a glancing hit
higher is a penetrating hit.
consult the proper chart for the latter two effects.
if the str of a weapon is double of the thoughness, the instant kill rule applies.
i hope this help ( and i got it right)
Last edited by Knape97; March 26th, 2005 at 16:56.
I think I get it but 3 questions:
1. I though the pulse rifle had a range of 30'' where did the 12'' and 48'' come from? Knew you could fire twice if you didn't move but I dont get how those range things effect it.
2. For the Str/T thing I see how the Str 5 / Though 3 cames to needed 2+ to wound but how did the Str 4 / Though 3 come about? With the first its the differnce right? But with the other its the same as the thoughness right? Is it that for every point of T lower they need 1+ higher to save?
3. For saving is the value in the Sv part, what is it for if the save DC is determaned by the Str/T thing?
Last edited by Osaria; March 26th, 2005 at 16:53.
1: The 12inch thing comes from the rapid fire rules.
2: There should be a chart in the back of the rule book that shows how wounds are figured and such, but you are getting the idea, its a basic math problem for the most part. However, the strength versus toughness has no bearing on what the Sv is, only on the likelihood of inflicting a wound which in turn would need a roll for save to be made to ignore the wound.
3: Yes, the Sv is what you think of armor as, thats what you roll to save. Not sure about the rest, but essentially a battle goes like this:
Close combat: You compare weapon skills, roll to hit. Of those that hit, you roll to wound, this compares the strength of the attacker versus the toughness of the defender. If you wound, you roll your Sv, to see if you survive, if not you take a wound. Now there are things like power weapons and such that change this, and shooting takes on the same sort of aspect, only its just the BS of the attacker that determines a hit.
What I would suggest, since I dont know how indepth I can legally go, is that you go to the local retailer of Gamesworkshop stuff and see if they can't give you a gamer tutorial (most stores should be helpful since it brings in business).
I have this problem too >.< Your reply also helped me Vindicator. Maus, under close combat you say there is an armour save? I thought there was no armour save in CC 0.o
there are armor saves in close combat. but here are also exception in.
power weapons for instance ignores armor saves. rending weapons do so a a roll of 6.
chars strenght is used to determine the "to wound" roll.
see it as a knight trying to wound an other knight. if he isn't strong enough he will have difficulty to puncture the armor.
a "power weapon " compare that to a light saber . very few things can stop that, but for instance a forcefield might.
i'm not entirely sure if an invulnerability save can stop a power weapon. Previous example is mere for comparison.
The power weapon/inv save , i need to ask myself too.
The 40k rules are a lot to take in all at once. If you're just starting the game, reread them several times...I know I had to when I first started out. Also, it helps if you can observe a game or two before starting one yourself, or, even better, play a game with a veteran player who doesn't mind you asking a few questions and having what is essentially a "practice game".
Your in Oshawa, I'm in Whitby. Can you teach me? Do you work at Sky Fox?
Were there armour saves in the older editions? Ive been playing with a lot of people without armour saves. Its wierd maybe they changed the rules a bit 0.o
Power weapons do allow invulnerable saves, although some unique and very powerful weapons do ignore invulnerable saves as well.
The simple answer to people here is, get the rulebook. I know it's hideously overpriced, but, not only will you be able to answer this question, you will be able to answer most of the other questions which will come up in the course of your games.
It really is the best way to stop your rulebook toting friends from screwing you over.