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    Revamp of Necron, advice/sugestions wanted

    I have to split this into two posts because i exceeded the character limit by quite a margin (the full one was something ~16,500, limit is 10,000)


    Units:
    Note:
    This section contains new units as well as any alteration to existing ones. For already existing units, only areas altered will be shown.

    HQ:

    Lord:
    Same stats as Codex Lord.
    Weapons: Same, although the Lord may replace its Staff of Light with any of the following weapons: Gauss Rifle +7, Gauss Shredder +14, Particle Cannon +25
    Options: In addition to the wargear already presented in the Codex, a Lord may also choose from the following items: Space Fold Device +15, Targeting Array +7, Advanced Melee Combat System +10.

    Overseer:
    Fluff: The simple facts of commanders is that they can only be in on place at any one time, and not even the Necrotyr's hyper-advanced technology has allowed them to overcome this. The Overseer's were created for this purpose. Essentially, they are Immortals who have shown exceptional skill and have been upgraded and given the authority to command a group of Necrons in battle.

    Pts/Model----WS----BS-----S----T----W---I----A----Ld-----Sv
    75--------------4-------5-----4----5----2----2----2----10-----3+

    Number/squad:
    1
    Weapons: Like the Lord, a Overseer is equipped with a Staff of Light as standard. They may replace this with any of the following for the given point cost: Warscythe +9,Gauss Blaster +0, Heavy Gauss Blaster +18, Gauss Rifle +6, Gauss Shredder+10, Heavy Gauss Shredder +16 , Shredder Missile Launcher +15, Particle Cannon +30, Phase Blades +5. Any weapon upgrade does not count against there wargear limit.
    Options: A Necron Overseer may select up to 60 points of wargear. They may select items from the Codex wargear section and items from the following list: Phase Armor +20,Space Fold Device +15, Enhanced Targeting Array +7, Advanced Melee Combat System +15.
    Character: The Overseer is a Independent Character and follows all of the rules given for characters given in the Warhammer 40k rulebook.

    Special Rules:

    Necron: The Overseer follows the Necron special rules from the Codex. Overseers are treated as Lords for purposes of the WBB rules.

    Elites:

    Pariahs:
    Same stats as Codex Pariah, except WS 5.
    Options: A Pariah may be equipped with any of the following items of wargear for the stated price per model: Phase Armor +13, Space Fold Device +12, Enhanced Targeting Array +7, Advanced Melee Combat System +15.

    Special Rules:
    Same as those in the Codex.

    Immortal:
    Same stats as Codex Immortal.
    Weapons: Gauss blaster. This may be replaced by any of the following weapons at the given price per model: Heavy Gauss Blaster +15,Gauss Rifle +5, Gauss Shredder+9, Heavy Gauss Shredder +15, Particle Cannon +25, Phase Blades +10.
    Options: Immortals may be upgraded with the following items of wargear for the stated price per model: Phase Armor +17,Space Fold Device +15, Enhanced Targeting Array +9, Advanced Melee Combat System +15, Disruption Field +3.

    Special Rules:
    Same as those in the Codex.

    Greater Flayed One:
    Fluff: These are Flayed Ones that have proven to have exceptional skill in combat over a extended period of time. These exceptional units are then upgraded with improved systems and training/programming, resulting in a Greater Flayed One. The improved cognitive abilities of these units means that they frequently lead a group of normal Flayed Ones into battle.

    Pts/Model----WS----BS-----S----T----W---I----A----Ld-----Sv
    35--------------5-------4-----4----5----2----5----2----10-----3+

    Numbers/squad: 4-10
    Weapons: Claws, may be upgraded with Phase Blades at +7 points, and/or disruption fields at +4 pts model.
    Options: Greater Flayed Ones may be upgraded with the following items of wargear for the stated price per model: Phase Armor +15,Space Fold Device +15, Advanced Melee Combat System +16.

    Special Rules:
    Necron: Same as Codex.
    Infiltrator: Same as Codex.
    Deep Strike: Same as Codex.
    Move Through Cover: Same as Codex, but may take the two best rolls, instead of just one.
    Terrifying Visage: Same as Codex.

    Troops:

    Flayed One:
    Same stats as Codex Flayed One, but pts/model is 16.
    Weapons: Claws, which may be upgraded to Phase Blades at +8 points per model and/or disruption fields at +4 points per model.
    Options: Flayed Ones may be upgraded with the following items of wargear for the stated price per model: Phase Armor +14,Space Fold Device +12, Advanced Melee Combat System +15.
    Character: One model in each Flayed Ones squad may be upgraded to a Greater Flayed One at a cost of 11 points.

    Special Rules:
    All are the same as those in the Codex.

    Warrior:
    Stats same as Codex Warrior.
    Weapons: Gauss flayer.
    ----Up to 2 models in a group may have there flayer replaced with one of the following weapons at the stated price: Gauss Blaster +6, Gauss Rifle +6.
    ----1 model in a squad may have its flayer replaced with a Gauss Shredder +9.
    ----1 model in a squad may have its flayer replaced by a Shredder Missile Launcher +14.
    Options: Warriors may be upgraded with the following items of wargear for the stated price per model: Phase Armor +7,Space Fold Device +15, Enhanced Targeting Array +9, Advanced Melee Combat System +10, Disruption Field +3.
    Character: One warrior in a squad may be upgraded to a Immortal at +10 points. [/I]

    Special Rules:
    Same as those in the Codex.

    Fast Attack:

    [B]Wraiths:[/I]
    Same stats as the Codex Wraith.
    Weapons: Claws and barbed tail. These may be upgraded to Phase Blades at +13 points per model and/or disruption fields at +6 points per model.

    Special Rules:
    Same as the Codex.

    Destroyer:
    Same stats as the Codex Destroyer, pts/model 40.
    Weapons: A Destroyer has 2 hard-points for weapons on its weapon arm. They may be filled with any of the following weapons at the given price per model. The number is brackets is the hard-point cost: Gauss Cannon +10 (2), Heavy Gauss Rifle +20 (2)Heavy Gauss Blaster +6(1), Twin-Linked Heavy Gauss Blasters +12(2), Gauss Rifle +6 (1), Particle Cannon +20 (2), Shredder Missile Launcher +15 (1)
    Options: Destroyers may be upgraded with the following items of wargear for the stated price per model: Phase Armor +15, Enhanced Targeting Array +10, Advanced Melee Combat System +13, Disruption Field +3, Phase Blades +12.
    Scarab Swarm:
    Same stats as Codex Scarab Swarm.
    Options: Disruption Field +4, Phase Blades +12.

    Special Rules:
    Same as those in the Codex.

    Heavy Support:

    Tomb Spyder:
    Same stats as the Codex Tomb Spyder.
    Options: They may be equipped with any of the following at the listed price per model: Disruption Field +4, Phase Blades +14, Phase Armor +17, Space Fold Drive +20, Enhanced Targeting Array +5, Advanced Melee combat Systems +15.
    ===The following weapons may replace one claw of the Tomb Spyder at the listed price per model. This will reduce its melee attacks by 1: Particle Projector +0, Gauss Blaster +5, Gauss Rifle +5.

    Special Rules:
    Same as those in the Codex.

    Heavy Destroyer:
    Same stats as Codex Heavy Destroyer, except pts/model 50.
    Weapons: A Heavy Destroyer has 3 hard-points for weapons on its weapon arm. They may be filled with any of the following weapons at the given price per model. The number is brackets is the hard-point cost: Heavy Gauss Cannon +15 (3),Gauss Cannon +10 (2), Quantum Disputation Cannon +45 (3), Heavy Gauss Rifle +15 (2)Heavy Gauss Blaster +6(1), Twin-Linked Heavy Gauss Blasters +12(2), Gauss Rifle +6 (1), Twin-Linked Gauss Rifles +10 (2), Gauss Shredder +8 (1), Heavy Gauss Shredder +15 (2), Particle Cannon +35 (2), Shredder Missile Launcher +15 (1)
    Options: Heavy Destroyers may be upgraded with the following items of wargear for the stated price per model: Phase Armor +15, Enhanced Targeting Array +10, Advanced Melee Combat System +13, Disruption Field +3, Phase Blades +12

    Special Rules:
    Same as those in the Codex.


    Monolith:
    Stats same as Codex Monolith.

    Special Rules:
    Same as those in the Codex.

    Last edited by Akhna; March 30th, 2005 at 20:31. Reason: correcting from suggestions

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    rest of post

    Wargear:

    Phase Blades: This is a derivative of Phase Armor technology. Any unit equipped with this items considered to be equipped with lightning claws [doubling cc strength and striking on its initiative] for melee purposes.
    Phase Armor: This armor is a upgrade for the elite troops of the C'tan, greatly increasing there toughness. It functions in a manner similar to the Wraiths incorporeal body, reducing the likelihood that a given shot will harm a unit equipped with it. However, since the warriors gifted with this armor were not designed from the get-go (so to say) to incorporate this technology, it is not as effective as it is on the Wraiths.
    In game terms, this armor provides the following benefits, with the corresponding cost, to these units.
    ----Pariah: provides it with a 4+ inv save
    ----Immortal: Provides it with a +5inv.
    ----Flayed One: The armor is much less effective as a defense when installed on a flayed one, providing only a 6+ inv save. However, the incorpeal nature of a Flayed One so equipped allows it to strike exceptionally deep into a enemy, as its claws partially pass through a enemies armor. The game effect of this is to consider a phase-armored Flayed One equipped with power weapons. .
    ----Warrior: Provides a 5+ inv save.
    ----Wraith: These units already have phase armor, and as such gain no benefit from this item.
    ----Destroyer & Heavy Destroyer: Since these units differ only by there armament, they will be discussed here as a single unit. When these units are equipped with phase armor, they gain a 5+ inv save.
    ----Scarab swarms: These units are too small to be equipped with phase armor.
    ----Tomb Spyder: When equipped with phase armor, these units gain a 5+ inv save.
    ----Monolith: These behemoths are too large to be equipped with current phase armor devices.

    Space Fold Drive (SFD): These devices are a extension of Necron ship technology, though on a much smaller and limited scale. They allow any unit equipped with them to warp space around them to essentially teleport over short distances. Thein game effect of this is to allow any unit so equied to move up to 12" in the movement phase and a further 6" in the assault phase (though it cannot charge and move in the assault phase). Unfortunately, this device does not function on units using a anti-gravity device (such as the destroyers and monolith), the tiny scarabs, or the Wraiths (whose phasic nature is essentially equivalent to the devices effect). This item has the listed cost on the following units.

    Enhanced Targeting Array: This devices consists of enhancements to a Necron's sensor systems as well as additional training/programming (depending on your view of the Necrons). This has the game effect of increasing a equipped units BS by 1.

    AMCS (Advanced Melee Combat System): This upgrade consists of various enhancements to a units myomer clusters as well as enhanced cognitive abilities, focusing on enhancing reflexes and prediction capabilities. This has the in-game effect of increasing the equipped units I by +1 and A by +1.



    New Weapons:

    Weapon------------------------------Range--------Str--------AP-----------Type
    Heavy Gauss Blaster-----------------30"------------5----------4--------------Assault 3
    Gauss Rifle----------------------------30"------------6----------3--------------Assault 1
    Heavy Gauss Rifle--------------------48"------------7----------2--------------Heavy 1
    Gauss Shredder-----------------------Template-----5----------4--------------Assault 1
    Heavy Gauss Shredder---------------Template-----6----------4--------------Heavy 1
    Particle Cannon-----------------------36"------------6----------3-------------Heavy 2
    Shredder Missile, Anti-Armor---------48"------------7----------2-------------Heavy 2
    Shredder Missile, Anti-Personnel----48"-------------5----------5-------------Heavy 2, Blast
    Quantum Disputation Cannon-------48"-------------8----------2-------------Heavy 1, Blast

    +Heavy Gauss Blaster: This is simply a heavier version of the gauss blaster. The enhanced components and more powerful capacitors increase both its fire-rate and range.
    +Gauss Rifle: This is a heavier version of the gauss flayer. Instead of spreading the capacitors charge over several shots, as a standard flayer does, it concentrates it into a single, devastating blast. This has the secondary effect of significantly increasing the weapons range compared to the standard flayer.
    +Heavy Gauss Rifle: This is simply a larger, more powerful version of the Gauss Rifle.
    +Gauss Shredder: This weapon is very similar to other gauss weaponry, but spreads the blast over a wider area. This does decrease the range of the weapon significantly, but allows it to strike a large number of targets in a manner similar to other races flamer weapons.
    +Heavy Gauss Shredder: This is a much more powerful version of the gauss shredder, able to legitimately threaten vehicles (above and beyond a normal gauss weapons capabilities).
    +Particle Cannon: This is a advanced particle beam cannon, simply firing a coherent beam of high energy particles. A self-sustaining magnetic field, generated by the charged plasma of the beam, helps keep the beam from dissipating, even over long ranges.
    +Shredder Missile: Many enemies of the Necrontyr assume that the only weapon technology employed by the them is the gauss weapons. This is untrue. The Necrontyr, like any advanced fighting force recognizes the necessity of combined arms, and the advantages of certain weapons over others. The shredder missiles uses the missiles advantages in both range and guidance to deliver a massive magnetic flux pulse to the target. This pulse, like all other Gauss weapons, causes the enemy to essentially disintegrate. The variants (Anti-armor & anti-personnel) represent the geometry of the blast, with the AA focusing the blast into a small area, causing maximum devastation to a single target, while the AP spreads the blast over a wider area, causing less damage to armor, but shredding (as the name implies) lightly armored personnel. Any Shredder missile launcher may fire either of these, or even both (with one shot in a given turn devoted to each type; 1 AA and 1 AP).
    +Quantum Disruption Cannon: One of the most terrifying weapons of the Necrontyr, the Quantum Disruption Cannon (QDC) takes Gauss technology to a new and devastating extreme. The QDC generates a immensely powerful fluctuating linear magnetic field along the weapons firing axis. This field causes the breakdown of the target on a atomic scale. Although a regular gauss weapon operates on similar principles, the QDC performs this ablating process in a fraction of a second, causing a large rapidly expanding ball of super-heated gas at the impact site. This secondary blast is nearly as destructive as the primary impact.
    Last edited by Akhna; March 30th, 2005 at 02:52. Reason: correcting from sugestions

  4. #3
    LO Zealot Addoran's Avatar
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    Flayed ones, you can now create them with base 4 attacks and I6 with AMCS?

    You can have entire squads of power weapon Flayed Ones with Phase Armour (not to mentioned they now have an invulnerable save)?

    They have different Deep Strike system (3 dice) to eveyone else?

    You can move entire squads of anything 12" a turn with SFD?

    Your Pariahs all have 2 wounds at the same cost?

    You would have cheap 75 point HQ unit (Overseer with ACMS) that is basically a 2 wound Necron Lord?

    Your particle cannon is arguable as good as/better than a Starcannon? (Don't forget improved Necron BS)


    Now I ask you this, what other army has simply that many powerful abilities? You might want to tone down some of your upgrades. Please don't think I'm rubbishing your ideas though, they show a lot of thought, and you have written a lot of fluffly concepts when designing them. It's simply that although you have put point costs on the upgrades, I have a problem with them being THAT powerful.

    I think my main point of view stems from the fact that you have tried to 'solve' the problems with the Necron codex. This is all fine and good, but did you not consider that the 'problems' were actually there for a reason? All Necron models already have WBB, sticking invulnerable saves and +2 armour saves on destroyers is simply too powerful. They are supposed to fragile and in small squads to present Necron Heavy weapons as something that must be used thoughtfully and carefully, not something that can simply be moved out into the open and soak up fire.

    For example the weakness against +2 armour saves is something I believe was designed in, to represent Necron reliance of massed Gauss fire, and not squad heavy weapons. This I believe is fluffy, the mindless Necron automata all shambling along to the horizon, all identical. Allowing you to upgrade individual Necrons to heavy weapons members simply doesn't fit right to me with the idea of lines of indentical robots inexorably marching firing on their enemy. So to that end, going from one AP2 weapon to three! is simply meddling with an intended weakness.

    Another example you have solved is that Necrons solve their speed problems through Veil of Darkness. The weakness was intended to represent the long slow lines of warriors inevitably marching in and absorbing the fire effortlessly. Giving so many units potential jetpack movement simply isn't fluffy, squads of immortals being able to chase down bikers/jetpack squads simply does not fit right with me.

    At the end of the day Necrons were designed and playtested to be slow. Necrons were designed and playtested to be weak against Terminators/Monstrous creatures. Solving those problems may seem like a good idea, but those weaknesses are there for a reason.

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    Ty very much for the response, and i will try to adress you comments in the order you presented them.

    1) Flayed ones, too many attacks issue;
    yes, i thought about that after i posted it, and i'm going to reduce it (probably +1 A and +1 I, i think thats about what the adreneal gland does for tyranids).

    2) Flayed Ones, too powerful issue;
    probably should make the phase armor more expensive (mayb 10-12 ponits/model), which would bring there total price to somewhere around 35 points/model, similar to a pariah without any ranged attack.

    3) Deepstrike issue;
    Yes, it didn't seem like that big of a deal to me at the time, but if should turn out ot be one, i'll change it.

    4) SFD issue;
    Yes again, but if you look at the point cost, most models equiped with it will cost somewhere around 1/2 again the base cost (brining things like immortals to almost 50 point each). Again, this didn't seem like that big of a deal, since the jump-pack troops i was looking at for the basis of this wargear item increased the price by ~10-12 points over a basic, non-jump pack equiped unit.

    5) Pariah 2W issue;
    Will change that, i geuss i was interperting the fluff to mean they were a "superior" form of necron. Also, since they lack the WBB roll or a improved save, it seemed reasonable to increase the W to give them a better survivability (which they don't seem to have right now, probably going to get blasted for that), making them more worth the points (since they also do not add to the phase out number).

    6) Overseer Issue;
    Yes, it is a necron lord with 2/3 the wounds. Now that i look at, i should probably take the A down by 1, maybe I by 1 too. That would make them just a better version of a immortal, but one that is able to take Codex wargear; which is what they where intended to do. However, you do need to recognize that they cost just short of 3 Immortals, but can only fire one weapon (those 3 Immortals would be able to put out a much greater volume of fire, and probably many more wounds)

    7) Particle Cannon Issue;
    No, a starcannon has 1 more shot, better AP (able to penetrate just about any infantry), and only slightly less range. The point cost for it on most models is comparable to the cost to equip a starcannon. Possibly should increase the point cost some for the BS, didn't think of that.

    8 ) General Upgrades to powerful Issue;
    Will work on it.

    9) "Solving" Army problems Issue;
    Perhaps, the save to the destroyer will probably be reduced to one closer to normal. I was just thinking of them more along the lines of really fast, light tanks (kinda like the eldar, but weaker), and so i altered them to be more in line with this i geuss. They would probably be the target of enemy heavy weapons any way, and given there small numbers, the increased saves don't seem like they would unbalance them overmuch, might be wrong there though.

    10) Conceptual/Intended Weakness Issu;
    I geuss this tems from a diffrent view of what the necrons are. I do not believe that a army that has been fighting for several hundreds of thousands (probably well into the millions) of years would leave such gapping holes in its armies capabilities. And the squad weapons do not need to symbolize individuality, the Command (Lord, C'tan, whatever) might have just walked past the line of warriors at the begining of battle and pointed at 2 of em, said ,"You three, take these blasters," and that was that. It doesn't mean that those 3 had any predisposition or likeing for the heavier weapons, they were just assigned to them because the command recognized the need for more heavy weapons in its army. As to the last, its actually 4 (the Shredder missile, H-Gauss Rifle, QDC, and H-Gauss Cannon), and perhaps to the intended weakness thing, as i said above, it just doesn't seem right that a ancient army would be sostupid as to not fill in obvious, fixable weaknesses to there army. Also, this does not change the style of the necrons, as they are still a shooty army (possbily more so), and you shouldremember that every point going towards a enhanced weapon is one less that can go towards increasing the phase out number. Further, it means that the enemy has to focus its fire power on that many fewer targets.

    11) Speed Issue;
    Perhaps the SFD speed should be reduced, i was basing it on the Eldar Warp Spider, which was probably a bad idea, given the radically diffrent army ethos. SFD-equiped Immortals would essentially be crappy destroyers. What i mean by that is that they would be slower in the long run ,since they cannot turbo-boost, and cannot use the heavy weapons of the destroyer, but would come out with a point cost pretty darn close to a destroyer.

    The main reason i made the alterations is because i seriously think that Necrons need some ability to modify there capabilities, since it enhances both there verstility and makes them more interesting, both from a army strucutre standpoint and it would increase the diffrence between individual Necron armies, which i think seems to be lacking. Although im sure many of you out there arer going to bring up the fact that a givenplayer can have very diffrent tactics from another, the simple fact is that with a small number of both units and weapons there is only so many combinations you can use. Increasing either of them (with weapons being the easier to balance, imo) greattly increases the number of tactics and strategies one may use with a given army.

  6. #5
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    your list is insanely unfluffy and overpowered

    this is a truly abysmal atempt to improve upon the necron codex, the army lsted here does not fit with the necron fluff almost at all, and is incredibly overpowered.

    first off, why it doesn't fit the fluff. necrons arent suposed to have unit leaders, individualism, or lots of different options for squad equipment and heavy weapon upgrades, it doesn't fit with the fluff. necrons have different abilities because of how advaned they were when they surendered their souls, and the different types of machines that the ctan put them in; not because they develop new technology, or have certain individuals that develop better fighting abilites than others. also necrons are mass produced, they all come out of the tomb world with the same weapons and armor, not different for each squad, you are trying to make the necrons be more like a "standard" SM or IG army, they arent like that. you want necrons to be like every other army where every squad has a comander, and the elites are essential slightly more advanced versions of the troops, if you wnted an army like that you should have gone SM and left the necrons with a list that actualy reflected their fluff

    secondly, why your list is incredibly overpowered. you obiuosly haven't playtested this army, or else you would know that every thing you made is worth almost double what you have people paying for it. my particular complaint was with giving pharias and greater flayed ones 2 wounds, as you seem to have no conception of how much better this makes the model, and thus how it would make them worth a lot more, while you seem to be giving it to pharias for free. while most of your upgrades are at least reasonably close to what they should cost, you have many models getting S8(phase blades) for free, or for 1 or 2 points while this should cost at least 10 pts per model to get. also, almost every single model in your list is able to get a power weapon that can also hurt tanks for under 5pts a model(disruption fields) while power weapons cost 10 to 15 pts per model for every single other army in the warhammer universe, and only come on HQ's and squad leaders. finally, the one thing in the necron codex that needed the most help, the wraith, you didn't improve in your list.

    to sum it up the changes you propose would make the necron list not only not fit the fluff at all, but would make it capable of effortlessly defeating any other army ever created.

  7. #6
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    Don't go too far tiaxrulesall, its far from abysmal. It would be abysmal if he had simply improved all the units arbitrarily and then stuck nominal points values on them all. What he has done is yes improved the list but tried to reason it with fluff, and made intelligent arguements. My problem with it is purely on the sheer power of the upgrades and interpretation of the fluff.

    I'll just feedback on the points.

    1/ Indeed, flayed ones with 5 attacks on the charge at initiative 6 was simply overpowered, they would be superior already to Khorne bezerkers, and then you factor in the WBB, and the Terrifying Visage....simply too powerful. I would not have so much of a problem though with 3 attacks base at I5.

    2/ Perhaps a slight alternative suggestion, make the upgrade give them rending? It would make more sense to me, and then you actually drop the points cost slightly for the idea.

    3/ Sorry, but deep striking on 3D6 you will never sell me on.

    4/ I have not that much of a problem with the 12" move points cost really (you have made it a hefty price), but Speedy Gonzales immortals that can keep up with motorbikes and jumppacks? It doesn't sit right with my image of the big flootslogging elites.

    5/ Here the problem was simply that you have taken a Necron unit, stuck an extra wound and more WS on it, and not increased its points cost. If they are 36 points with one wound, 2 wound pariahs for the same points can't make sense.

    6/ True the overseer is more expensive than 2/3 Pariahs and doesnt have their capability. The problem is allowing Necrons a 'cheap' HQ choice is undoing one of their built in weakness. All their HQ options are deliberately expensive I feel in an attempt to make composition good, and prevent min/maxing on troops. (Imagine a Necron army with a 65pt Hq and then just warriors...)

    7/ Indeed the Starcannon has more shots and better AP. However the Particle cannon would be fired at BS4, and have an extra turn's shooting due to it's longer range. Therefore it would hit more, and with the extra turn's shooting and ability to kill things further away, is 'arguably' better than the Starcannon. This is of course if you are fighting MEQs, and is of course altered by terminators.

    8/ I think the thing to remember is that indeed the Necrons are the ancient spawned race with the most powerful technology...blah blah blah. Some of these upgrades yes, but sheer power of these upgrades is simply too great compared to any other army in 40k. Can any other army give all it's units invulnerable saves? Can any other army make practically any unit move 12"?

    9/ Think about Destroyers with a +2 normal, +5invulnerable and WBB. The +2 combined with T5 and WBB means lasguns and bolter fire are probably going to do little. As are heavy weapons like missile launchers due to lack of AP2. Only lascannon and the like are going to be a threat, and then you can take the +5 invulerable and then the +4 WBB? Thats soaking up the enemies anti-tank in too much of a godlike manner for me.

    10/ You say an army that has been fighting for hundreds of thousands of years would be unlikely to leave such holes in their army's capabilities. However the thing you must think about is that the current codex has no such problem with such a thing. The Eldar have been fighting for thousands of years since their fall and no bright spark has come along and said 'wait a minute, lets give our Warp Spiders Reaper Launchers, then they can fire and then warp out', or the Imperium hasn't said "Lets mount captured Tau railguns on our tanks, and then we have the best anti-tank weapons". The simple fact is that all armies must have weakness, they are designed and play tested to each have inherrent flaws. The current Necron codex has the Necrons in such a state, as they awake from their tombworlds. Is it impossible to say that the Necrons are incapable of rapid tactical range, and continue to hold onto the same formation and tactics they used then they went to sleep? It would explain their current problems with +2 armour saves, they are not used to these new opponents and their fancy armours.

    11/ You seem to be on top of the speed issue, but fluff wise would it not be better to rely on specialised fast units like wraiths and destroyers for speed, and not have super speedy footslogging warriors?

  8. #7
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    Edit notes

    The following changes have been made:

    Units:

    Overseer
    ---base price raised to 75 points
    ---A reduced to 2
    ---Phase armor raised to 20 pts
    ---AMCS price raised to 15
    ---Phase blades raised to 10 points

    Pariah
    ---Returned to W 1
    ---Phase Armor raised to 13 points
    ---AMCS raised to 15 points

    Immortal
    ---Phase Blades raised to 10 points
    ---Phase armor raised to 17 points
    ---Particle Cannon raised to 25 points
    ---AMCS raised to 15 points

    Greater Flayed one
    ---Base pont cost raised to 35
    ---Claws standard, phase blade optional for +7 points.
    ---Phase armor raised to 15 points
    ---SFD raised to 15
    ---AMCS raised to 16
    ---Deepstrike rule returned to normal 2d6

    Flayed One
    ---Base point cost returned to 18
    ---Phase Blade raised to 8
    ---Phase armor raised to 14
    ---SFD raised to 12
    ---AMCS raised to 15
    ---Great Flayed one upgrade costs 17

    Warrior
    ---3 max models able to use Gauss Blaster/Rifle changed to 2
    ---Phase Armor raised to 14

    Destroyer
    ---Shredder Missile Launcher raised to 15
    ---Phase Blades raised to 12
    ---AMCS raised to 13

    Scarab Swarm
    ---Phase Blades raised to 12

    Tomb Spyder
    ---Phase Blades raised to 14
    ---Phase armor raised to 17

    Heavy Destroyer
    ---Quantum Disruption Cannon raised to 45
    ---Particle Cannon raised to 35
    ---Shredder Missile Launcher raised to 15
    ---Phase Blades raised to 12
    ---AMCS raised to 13

    Wargear:

    ---Disruption field no longer acts as a power weapon.
    ---Phase Armor
    ====Immortals no longer reciueve a 2+ normal save when equiped.
    ====Destroyers and H-Destroyers no longer recieve a 2+ normal save when equiped.
    ---Advanced Melee Combat Systems now only provide a +1 bonus to I and a +1 bonus to A


    Weapons:
    ---Particle Cannon range reduced to 36" (like Starcannon) and equiping cost signifigantly increased.
    ===============

    Tiaxrulesall: It only makes sense, even mass produced items differ. As to the "squad leaders", i think it makes sense for the following reasons:
    ----Necrons cannot communicate without restriction with each other, ie they cannot know what the others are seeing, experienceing. If they could, why would a centralised leader, who generally is thought of as having a better overview of the whole battle, be needed? If they all knew what every other one was doing and experienceing, would not a true hivemind be more effective with a decentralised conscousness (like the bord sans Queen), since then there working together could not be interupted by the death of any one individual. Follwoing that, it would make sense for more capable individual units to lead lesser ones. The sub-leader would be recieving all the information from its group as well as experienceing the same things. These sub-leaders would then send there information and a quciker version of its group to the Lord, who would then have to act on a much smaller, more distilled (and probably more accruate) base of information and would be able to act much faster and with better accuracy.
    ----The above statement of them not having a true hive-mind is supported by the fact that a lord exists. If they were a true hive-mind with a completely decentralised intelligence than no lord would be needed, and would probably be a detriment to such a group.

    And no, i have not play tested these alteration. And thats why i'm asking for advice and sugestions. If i had playtested it thouraly and knew it was balanced, there wouldn't be much reason for me to spend a hour and a half typing it up, now would there?

    In general, ty for the suggestions, despite the overall hostile stance of them.

    Addoran, ty for the sugestion, and i have altered the numbers to be more in line with the sugestions so far

    for number 4), this is the key here: "It doesn't sit right with my image of the big flootslogging elites" (from Addoran). That is the big problem with messing with armies, you will inevitably come into conflict with others already formed ideas on what that army should be/do and there interpertation of its history.

    # 7 & 9: the price for these items has been increased as and the 2+ improvment has been removed.

    #10) This would be morea technical issue, though it is definetly a point of conention against my alterations to the Necron. Perhaps the reaper launcher is to large/take tomuch energy to be equiped on a Warp Spyder. Can you confirm that the Imperium even knows how Tau technology works, and more importantly, can reverse engineer it sufficiently to make use of it? To my knowledge (which i will admit is rather limited), the Imperium does not have a full grasp on how its own technology works. The terminator is described as ancient, rare armor. A major reason for this is that they do not know how all of its parts work or the science behind them. They have degresed from there former advanced state to the point that they use millenia old designs and have even gotten to the point where the have tech priests, impling that they think of advanced technology as so far beyond them for it to be part of a religion!
    If you read the fluff for the Hammerhead, it says that the majority of the tanks internal space is devoted for powersystem for the weapons. Does the Imperium have similar power systems? are they compatible or powerful enough to fit on a tank chasis?

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    Senior Member tiaxrulesall's Avatar
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    i do think that the changes you made, have made the army decently balanced, at least as much as some that games workshop have created. i still think that it is highly against the necron fluff, i acept your aguments for why they would have individualism, but that acounts for about the amount they normally have, instead of none at all. they definately have less individualism than other armies, but your list does not reflect this, you have given them the diversity and commoness of upgrades and squad leaders that most amies have, but necrons have all their fluff about all being the same, and mind controlled by the ctan, so they should thus have lessdiversity and individualism than most armies which is not what you ahve given them.

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    LO Zealot Addoran's Avatar
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    This is actually looking like quite a good list. Hope you don't mistake my opposition to a lot of it to actual hostility to the ideas, as I said it was just the level of it. I hope you recognised my criticism as constructive criticism.

    The only unsolved thing I think is point 10, but I'm not going to bother trying to argue that with you
    We could argue point number 10 all night and neither of us stands any chance of 'proving' our arguement right, seeing as our arguement is based on interpretation of the fluff.

    Kudos then on some nice ideas on the Necron list.

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    YOU ARE CON FLICTING WITH THE NATURE OF NECRONS. THEY DO NOT HAVE SQUAD
    LEADERS AND THEY DO NOT DEVELOP NEW TECHNOLOGY!! THEY WERE BUILT 60
    MILLION YEARS AGO. IF YOU REALLY WANT NEW MODELS THEN CHANGE THE FLUFF!
    Have something like "a meddiling techpriest unleashed a new tomb of advanced necron
    warriors...". Necrons will never have squad members with guass flamers or rocket
    lanchers. they were ment to be the same. If you dont like that then change to SM!!!!

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