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i've recently had the pleasure of coming up against this DA army with my nids. and i got absolutely trashed. how would any of you go about it?
cheap chaplain (stubborn because he has to buy it)
Dreadnaught w/ assault cannon
4 6 man tac squads, plasma gun and plasma cannon in each
6 man tac squad, plasma gun and lascannon
2 lanspeeders, heavy bolter and assault cannon on each (separate squads)
8 or 10 man (not sure, sorry) assault squad. seargent with a powerfist.
2 predator annihilators, TW lascannons, lascannon sponsons
personally i think this list is pretty sick. at close range it can put out 10 plasmagun shots, 4 plasma gun blasts, 7 lascannon shots, a demolisher template, 12 rending assault cannon shots and 6 heavy bolters. then 42 bolter shots.
can someone come up with any ways they'd fight this list? preferably without having to go with a seeding swarm. I can resort to hiding behind cover to a limited extent but the problem is that he has so many heavy weapons that can fire at separate targets that hiding is pretty ineffective as he can cover most of the board.
How many Points battle was that? And wat was ur army list?
The Trick i have found to dealing with Dark Angels is Gaunts. Esp with that Army List.
That army list is for a TMC army. With all those Lascannons and Plasma, if u keep down on the big expensive thing then they become useless, wats the use in shooting a spinegaunt with a lascannon? The only thing u'll really have to beware of is the Land Speeders (cos dreadnaughts die real easy)
Obviously it depends on how many gaunts u actually own. I'd use loads of Hormagaunts and most importantly Lysogaunts (Gaunts with Adrenal Glands (In) Leaping, Toxin Sacs, Scything Talons, Hive Node - 24 of them, 298 points, 24" charge and 72 attacks at full strength, ouch) to get into combat within 2 rounds and mix things up. And a BIG meat Shield of Spine Gaunts to tie up units (even a dreadnaught takes a while to crush 32 gaunts by which time the big boys should be down to finally put his soul to rest) and protecting a squad or two of everybodies favourite Genestealers.
Take a Tyrant with Enhanced Senses and Venom Cannon with 2 Guards for the speeders.
A Carnifex with Vemon Cannon for tanks / speeders
A Lictor with Rendering Claws to try and sneak behind the Pred or units of opertunity.
Even some Gargoyles to apply early pressure.
The Key to a shooty armys is getting into combat Quickly to which Leaping Gaunts are awfully good at.
I believe Tyranids are a Swarm Army so i have loads of gaunts and dont usually play many big creatures cos they just arnt cost effective. Plus its always funny to watch a Space Marine Player setting up an army of 50 men on the field and then u set up an army of 100 - 120 sets of Razor Sharp Claws and Nashing Teeth. Mwhahahaha, isnt war fun.
the main problem with a TMC-less list is that i won't have enough anti-tank:
things that can bust a tank that aren't tmc's
1. bio-acid- if you rely on that i suggest you never start gambling with money.
2. lictor rending claws- rely on a 6 to rend high armour values can get low armour pretty easily, in this game he had a good shot at the rear of the vindicator but just embarassed himself.
3. genestealers. they have to walk towards the landspeeders with heavy bolter and assault cannon.
really, to have a shot at taking down his big tanks i have to have the big beasties. i had a winged cc tyrant with WB and 2 VC toting carnifex's that ate fiery plasma death.
i did however put all my gaunts down, which was 64, they didn't actually do much because my synapse was busy dying left, right and center.
it was a 1500 pt battle.
i was using a standard list (ie, not changing it to suit my opponent) of the stuff i'd mentioned, the gaunts were 32 spinegaunts and 32 deathgaunts. then (i didn't bring any stealers) i had a lictor and 6 leaping warriors.
Aye, that is always the problem.
1. Gargoyles are for taking out Tactical Heavy Weapon Squads. They are crap for tanks and giving Bio-Plasma to any other unit is a waste of money accept maybe A Carnifex for an early extra attack (IF he makes it, I wouldnâ€™t bother tho cos he never does)
2. lol okay, Lictor isnâ€™t a mean tankbusting machine but he can be used to take out squads and can help take out a tank with help from a TMC.
3. Donâ€™t send anything to take a speeder on H2H. U need 6â€™s to hit skimmers. Its easier just to get ur Tyrant to pop him out of sky.
imo, 2 Carnifexâ€™s is a big waste of money. I very rarely make my points up on one. Hes just too slow but hes always good for some Venom Cannonage and fear cos if he gets thereâ€¦ mwhahaha.
Instead take of one take 3 Warriors. They are Cheaper and Synapse. Give â€˜em Rending Claws (x1), Scything Talons (x4), a Venom Cannon and Extended Carpace. They are cheaper at just under 100points. Uâ€™ll have the Cannon and the strength for the tanks.
De-Wing ur Tyrant cos u could do with the Firepower and Acc. Leave Gaunts for the early CC, theirs nothing their they can handle. Give him Enhanced Senses, Toxin Sacs, Scything Talons (x1) and a Venom Cannon along with 2 guards to soak up the shots.
Remember Venom Cannons only get â€˜glancing shotsâ€™ on tanks so blowing one up by shooting it isnâ€™t very easy (unless itâ€™s a Speeder, those things die real nice) The Thing to do is try and get a weapon Disabled and charge ur Tyant, Carnifex, Warrior into that side and tear the thing open and suck out the goodness.
Rush Gaunts towards the enemy. The Lack of Template Weapons will aid their charge if u use loads of leapers theyâ€™ll be in combat by round 2 and thatâ€™ll take care of Tac squads or atleast make a shield so others wont be able to shoot through (remember: U cant fire Heavy Weapons over / Through h2h combat). Make sure all ur TMC are hidden until ur shield is in place (accept maybe a lictor is the opportunity arises if not keep him hidden so he can jump out and back up a TMC when they get behind lines.) Or theyâ€™ll eat Burning Plasma.
Use ur Tyrant to Take out the Skimmers, which will no doubt try and charge u down the flanks and then move ur big guys forward. When trying to take a pop at the Preds, try and stick more than one gunner out so if it goes tits up all the fire isnâ€™t focused on one (having 3 warriors will help) and make sure only one pred can see them and fire everything u have at that one. Then, pray a cannon pops, 3 venom cannons - 1. Should hit atleast twice if they havnt moved 2. Blow something on it up.
And then Charge them forward to rip the metal coffins apart. Genestealers are nice at destroying disabled tanks. Move them up behind the initial gaunt meat shield a wait for their chance.
Also Remember, Lysogaunts (pumped up Hormagaunts) have a chance at getting AV10 so thatâ€™ll tear open a rear hatch if u get the chance, but Iâ€™d use them for taking down the Heavy Weapon Tac Sqauds. No More Plasma for them.
I hope this helps and makes sense and i dont sound like a complete idiot. :-/
It's pretty hard to help you if you not willing to change you list. I'd day you had too many gaunts without leaping. 32 spinegaunts though cheap can't make it into close combat as well as leapers and will just get mowed down by AP 5 weapons. If i were you i'd take Old One Eye, and some tyrant guard for a fire magnet and also 3 biovores to lay down some indirect fire. Also if you want better help then tell us what went wrong. Could be the list isn't wrongOriginally Posted by TzarNikolai
well i'm sorry for implying that but its not what i meant. I was trying to say i have a standard list that i hope works well enough against everyone and i already had it written out so didn't change it.
what went wrong was that he deployed in such a way as that I couldn't hide behind any terrain because there were so many heavy weapons with so many different fire arcs liberally scattered around. my big beasties just couldn't hide anywhere properly. and my gaunts got mowed down by the numerous bolters etc.
sorry but OOE is a definate no. although he's not technically a special character our gaming club doesn't play with those at all, even c'tan and nids.
i like the tyrant guard idea. those would help.
my luck was about average. i think the main failing was that i couldn't permenantly damage his vehicles. i downed one speeder (autoglancing VC's on fex) but only stopped his pred's firing for a turn. i couldn't get close enough to penetrate them with anything- actually thats not true. my tyrant opened up a pred. the main problem was that the fex's, which were supposed to hold down one flank were roasted alive.
another problem is that he's DA. and therefore stubborn and can "know no fear". so to disable one of his heavy weapons i have to remove all 6 marines from it. and after that he has 4 more.
in fact, i'm not giving my tyrant enough credit. how about another? people frown down on the use of one winged tyrant but i find his list pretty sick. how about 2 flying monsters?
Can you write down your army list (it can help if we are to suggest viable alternatives)
Some thoughts though:
Largest TMC killers in his list are the annihilators and the vindicator (6 Lascanons and a demolisher) - so they (and not the dread or speeder) should be your targets. also it will be easier for you to kill them in CC (chance is that they didn't move - so hits are auto.)
Use your TMC as decoys with lots of guards (2 for each).
Your real killers will be your leaping warriors - which will be divided into 3 small 3-4 warriors groups, and your 3 small broods of 6 infiltrating-hiding-behind-a-more-jucy-targets-stealers. I suggest leave the lictor, as his cost is the same as 2 tooled-up leaping warriors (4 rend att vs. 8 rend att).
Equip the TMC as lightly as possible as to not waste the points. if you use 3 TMC - I'd go for a 2 Tyrant (1 is flying) + 1 Carni combi and not the other way around.
3 broods of 1 ravener (15 rend att on the combined charge).
Max. of 3 Biovores with bio-acid.
4 Small broods of 8-10 leaping IN5, WS4 gaunts, 50% with hive nodes.
The small brood sizes is meant to allow you max tactical flexability, and too cause your opponent to "waste" some of his shooting on a too-small units.
i have found that three biovors with poison mines work a lot better then bioacid. the total randomness of the acid has a tendency to make it a waste. they will still get there armor save but if placed right you will force him to make a ton of them, which will kill a suprising number.
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from Fetusmart! Hooray fetus! </a>
you are statistically incorrect: ord temp will avarage 7 models in a group formation (as opposed to a line, in which case will avarge 3-5), 33% chance to hit, of those 50% will be wounded, of those 33% will fail their save. that mean on avarage you will kill 0.38 marines with each poison mine.
bio-acid will respectively hit 5 models in a group or 7 in a line, 33%, 33%, no save.
that will kill on avarage 0.54 \ 0.76 marines.
as you can see - acid is better.
also in terms of damage on vehicles, poison will auto glance, but acid can also penetrate (2d6+3).
the only problem with that is that you only have a 33% chance of hiting that many modles with the acid mine as it is also random as to what direction it exsplodes. on a hit it targets the closest enemy model so in all actuallity you only have about an 11% chance of actually hitting the targeted units. so if you do hit yes you have a better chance of wounding enemy models but you need to hit them first.
I adopted a cute lil' dragon fetus
from Fetusmart! Hooray fetus! </a>