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Hi everyone, Since Yesterday I have started my new Eldar army. In my army I would like to include quite a few guardians, maybe about 20 at the very least. When I read that shuriken catapults are only 12", I realized that it would be impossible to get into range of tyranids without getting into their 12" assault range for Hormagaunts. Are guardians just completely useless against Tyanids? Are there any ways to deal with this problem? Help would be appreciated
- The Ham
honestly, yah they are, I have never had any luck with guardians vs Nids they are worse then cannon fodder because they actually speed up the incoming swarms. Even a squad of 20 will die horrendously fast, probably never getting a shot off, the only way they can be ok is with a warlock with conceal, that way you strike at I 10 for first round. then those 20 meat shields will actually do a bit of damage.
My way to combat this is I donâ€™t take a lot guardians, just 1 squad of 20 +platform + warlock. I striking scorp them to death right after they charge. Also I whip around in lots falcons and vipers, making him chase me around the board.
If you're starting 24" away and the Hormagaunts move forward their full 6" and FoF, they'll still be too far away to assault your Guardians. However, since they'll be less than 18" away, you can charge your Guardians forward 6" and be in range with the Catapults. You'll definitely be assaulted the next turn as long as there are some left alive, of course, so unless you consider the Guardians entirely expendable perhaps something like Guide would help do more initial damage. A Warlock with Embolden would help in close combat, too.
I face tyranids very regularly and have lots of experiance in the way of the tyranid so I'll just list a tyranid unit then put their opposite number.
Carnifex - Star cannons, Mind War
Hive Tyrant - Avatar, Star cannons, Mind War
Termagaunts, Hormagaunts - Lasblasters, Striking Scorpions, Shadow weavers, Scatter lasers
Genestealers - Warp Spiders, Scatter Lasers
Zoanthroap - Star Cannons, Mind War, Howling Banshees,
Ripper Swarms - Warp Spiders, Scatter lasers, Shuriken Cannon
Warriors - Star Cannons, Mind War, eldar missile launcher
Ravener - Striking Scorpions, Howling Banshees,
I have fought tyranids before and starcannons platforms for the gaurdians is my best bet s6 and ap2 will kill most tyranid creatures as stated above, but the neat thing is that u can move back 6 inches and still shot so u might be able to get out of chage range or move into cover, also back them up with other units like banshees, striking scorpians or a wraithlord with 2 flamers that should hopfully fix your problem.
Mind War is ineffective vs Carnifexs and Tyrants, because you only have a 50/50 chance of causing a single wound per turn. This is because they match youre Ld.
Now, if he Biomorphs any Gaunts and they don't have leaping, then they sure are useful, also, if his warriors don't have movement Biomorphs, then they are damn useful vs them. Genestealers have no movement Biomorphs anyway, so you can tear them up with Shuriken Fire too.
You cannot win, for to fight us is to give us power.
I would avoid fielding shuriken catapults vs. nids. DAs and guardians are ineffective due to their range, but rangers can actually kill of some of the big bugs. I recommend fielding 2x6 rangers as your troop choices, and a lot of vypers with multi-shot weapons to kill gaunt-swarms.
Rangers are raher ineffective. Sure they can wound the big stuff, but they all have good saves, and you'll only get 1/2 and AP1 wound per turn. (I 6 a turn in a 6 man squad, 1/2 wound). All the little stuff is fearless, so immune to pinning, so you're better off without. If you do field them, however, remember they have pistols, so you can shoot 12 shots a turn at 12" range, which ain't bad. But that's 114 points, which could be 14 Guardians, which is 28 shots...
A Vyper with Shuriken Cannon and Additional Shuriken Cannon is pretty good, 6 shots a turn at 24", and will nail their troops pretty bad, although I can forsee people disagreeing with this because it's not cheap at 70 points, however I find them to be effective.
A Wraithlord with twin flamers wouldn't go amiss either, just watch out for those Rending Claws!
With the new Targetting rules, Vibrocannons can nail a lot of units in a single shot, so you could try them out, although you do miss out on the pinning...
Wave Serpents would serve you well to get your guys into range for their weapons, but beware those fast guys that can take them out.
Try out Warp Spiders, they have lots of high-S shots, great against their mobs, and they are fast enough to outrun the nids, and can even warp away if you need! They aren't half resilient to, with 3+ saves, take an Exarch with Withdraw only, and if you do get caught in CC, withdraw out, then shoot them next turn.
That's all I can think of for the moment...
You cannot win, for to fight us is to give us power.
0 wound = 58%Mind War is ineffective vs Carnifexs and Tyrants, because you only have a 50/50 chance of causing a single wound per turn. This is because they match youre Ld.
1 wound = 13%
2 wound = 11%
3 wound = 9%
4 wound = 6%
5 wound = 3%
So that means your far seer will on average do 1(actually 1.01) wounds per turn (the 0 wounds are made up by the chances for multiple wounds) vs a hive tyrant, I like those odds, you would have a hard time matching that in shooting. Besides when was the last time a target with less then ld 10 was worth mind warring. Its not the greatest power, but it can work, and when it does it is great, just donâ€™t count on it. to say it is infective is a long shot.
guardians are not really gunna put up with the nids, unless you are USF, but even still.. it is relativley hard.
To deal with them.. I'd rather use Swooping hawks, and warp spiders, their range, speed and mobility and lots of shooting helps hella.
Not to also mention some war walkers to deal with them.
Falcons can be your all around shooting, while being pretty invurnable to the nids.