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Im a Blood Angels player myself but im going to put my army on hold for a wee bit because I wanna wait for the new codex.
So I was looking for an army to play and stumbled on the new nids codex but before I choose it I got some questions.
I never saw or heard of a single Tyranid player that dident use a Carnifex.
Now, in my opinion the Carnifex is quite useless seeing he cant keep up with the army's speed and hes just a big target with no possibility for guard (plus a major points drain since its tempting to buff him up).
I was planning on a horde army of nids and I was wondering, is carni really a must? Because I like the model but I dont really wanna field one.
Also, are Zoanthropes usefull? I like their powers and all but their low range makes me wonder.
And last (but not least), are Raveners any good? I really like them but im not sure how much models that cost 30+ points with a save of 5+ will last.
Each nid has its pros and cons and whether you use it depends on if it suits your style of play:Pros:Originally Posted by Lord Jusen
powerful, has 4 (5) wounds and a high toughness so it can survive for a couple of rounds. can also use the nid equivilant of heavy weapons.
firemagnet, slow, nid heavy weapons are only useful against infantry with the exception of VC which is for vecichles.Again, style of play. I like them, i know ppl that refuse to touch them.Also, are Zoanthropes usefull? I like their powers and all but their low range makes me wonder.
pros: comes with a 2+/6+ save. Can arm 2 psychic powers including a very powerful weapon attack. good against powerarmor. also has ability that prevents instakills. also useful to support your slower gaunts.
cons: expensive if you want it to be effective. str 10 WB only has 18" range and the str5 one has 24".Pros: Manuverable and if ur opponet is using scouts, you can get in assault (and therefore safety) by turn 1. Can have rending attacks (always a plus). Good I and WSAnd last (but not least), are Raveners any good? I really like them but im not sure how much models that cost 30+ points with a save of 5+ will last.
Cons: They die soooooooo easilly!! also expensive
Bottom line: Each nid has it's use, advs and disavds. Pick those that suit your style of gaming and enhance your army. Nids aren't like eldar, we don't need surgical strikes. however, we're not SM's, we can't just throw stuff at other stuff and hope that our stats save us. Nids work best in waves (IMO) and you should tool your army after this concept (IMO, there are others that think that i'm an idiot for thinking this way)
you can have a Brood lord and a retinue of 12 Gene stealers for same points as a reall really boosted up hive
Raveners suck dont ever us them ever seen a ravener in a good army? you can take them out with Reper auto cannons, auto cannones and heavy bolters. Zoan thropes eat tanks for breakfast take them if you getting a horde army since you wont have any montorus creatures
Almost everything nids can be taken out by those things. Hell, almost everything in the game can be taken out by those things.Originally Posted by MADDNESS
Ravs are kinda eldar-ish in that unless you use them correctly, they're a waste of points. If you charge them in through the front, you just lost 40-ish points per model there. If you skirt them around the side, utilize cover well and use them to harrass and take your opponent's attention elsewhere, then I have found that they're quite useful. And they can almost always get into combat by turn 2 (excluding large boards/an opponent that can read your mind/one that has insane amounts of mobility)
Thanks for the help.
Ill take your advice into mind while picking an army.
The carnifex being a fire magnet does not have to be a disadvantage, since this prevents people from firing at your faster creatures who are anyway more likely to get into CC.
Just make it tough enough to pose a threat, and since it is a really big and scary model people really want to get rid of it. This will protect your winged hive tyrants, maybe. ^_^
Warhammer Fantasy: Warriors of Chaos, High Elves
Warhammer 40k: Eldar, Space Marines, Orks
The HERSH would know how much I love the new Carnifex's. They're great! I'm having 3 of them, as they're better than the Zoans and vores (im goingto be playing IG, and the WB is kinda useless, as is the small templates of the spores). Instead, the 3 fex's will wipe out anything. If you're gonna play against an army with 3 fex's, I'd bring loads of AP 2 weapons and just fire at them. But, because you're blood angels, you have a 3+save, so they'll take Zoanthropes with WB to try and take you out. Don't worry about them, take out the fex's. If he's smart, he'll take a fex with VC and twin-linked deathspitters to hunt some tanks and hurt some troops. With this guy, I'd personally have Bonded Exoskeleton, Extended Carapace and Re-inforced chitin so he can take loads of punishment. For you(who I assume hasn't read the codex yet), that means a T 7 beast with 5 wounds and 2+ save! If you can get 5 lascannons on him, you have a good chance of hurting him, but, plasma cannons etc. (which I believe are Str.8, haven't read the codex properly) will only wound on a 3+. If this guy wants his fex to be good at cc, he'll give him all the toxin stuff, which will give him Str. 10, re-role failed wounds and the enemy loses 1 WS when fighting him! TO kill tanks, he'll finish off his massive fex with a mace tail and spine banks to attack first.
The other fex will be mostly an infantry shredder. He'll have a Barbed Strangler, which is perfect for killing IG. Then, he'll have crushing claws, for close combat destruction. That cc fex will also have tusks and a scythe tail to take out lots of troops. Then, to make sure he doesn't get scared, the troop squasher will have a thornback. He's fearless, so, if he loses combat, he'll count as 8 models!
They may cost a little over 200pts, but they're strong, believe me. If they get into close combat, the games up. Even tooled up dreadnaughts will have tough times against these beasts, and they do loads of damage from far as well. Don't forget the Zoan's; they're the only chance of killing Space Marines from far (Str. 5 Ap 3 Blastsmall). It's about 2 dead space marines per shot. For target priority, I suggest you fire all your Ap 2 weapons against the carni's and the HT (if hes tooled for cc). Then, take the Zoan when they start shooting you. Don't worry about their 6 inv.
I've never played Space Marine's, so I don't really know much about this.
"If a ninja does anything anywhere it won't make a sound, but if it does it's probably gonna be the last sound you hear."
Doesn't monstrous creatures count as 10 models? That would mean that a carni would count as 20 models in cc with the thornbacks biomorph.
Yes, a fex would count as 20 models for outnumbering purposes.Originally Posted by PlattFirst of all listen to your teacher when she/he teaches you grammar. Second, raveners don't suck. They are basicly stealers (if given RC and talons) and have twice the wounds and attacks, but twice the point cost also. Unfortunately they have slightly worse I and WS, but to make up for this in that they can DS. So if you think about it you have slightly less skilled stealers that can DS. All you need is a squad of less than 6 and you should be able to take down heavy weapons teams before they cause too much damage to the rest of your force. Think of raveners as damage control. They don't always get their points back (unless they take down a tank), but they help protect the rest of your army similairly to the baitfex. Raveners can also be used to a psycological extend much as the lictor in that the other guy doesn't now where they might pop up.Originally Posted by MADDNESSIMO yes they are (in 1000+ games anyways). Yes, they can be expensive, but are amazing units and firemagnets. Similairly to raveners they are great damage control specialists. The soak up lead so they rest of your force doesn't have too! (Yeah I know sounds mean, but we do play nids! :p ) Also if they other guy doesn't go for him he will eventually reach the other side and wreck havoc everywhere.I was wondering, is carni really a must?I don't hate them and I don't like 'em. It's a tough decision for me. They are great at tank busting, but they do have problems such as range and vunerability even with their good save. It's up to you on this one. The general rule is use them if you don't have good tank busting units like in a horde army.Also, are Zoanthropes usefull?
Goodluck with starting nids!
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