Welcome to Librarium Online!
Join our community of 80,000+ members and take part in the number one resource for Warhammer and Warhammer 40K discussion!
Registering gives you full access to take part in discussions, upload pictures, contact other members and search everything!
warrior sqads can have twenty in a unit and can have two heavy weapons. a raider squad can have ten with one heavy weapon. with a raider unit you have to take a raider which is a very easy target. warriors are a better shooting unit than assaulting unit so why pay points to assault faster if you can just shoot. If you could take close cambat weapon and pistle the raider squads would alot better. if you use ten warriors with two heavy weapons it is five points less that a unit of five with one heavy weapon and the raider dies faster than troops then you are stuck for a turn and only one heave weapon is left.
The warrior squad is more versitile than the raider squad, because with a warrior squad, you can have 2 splinter cannons, and with the raider squad you are limited to only one splinter cannon, and you have to have a dark lance. If you were playing a horde army, the dark lance becomes almost useless compared to a splinter cannon.
as most people play against marines lets look at how many kills per point cost of the squad we get.
full warrior squad of 20 2 dark lances 2 blasters 16 splinter rifles. total points: 190 total kills against marine stats if all are in range: 4.59
41 points per kill
this is however unlikley as with everything firing your at 12" and didnt move so your opponent was in rapid fire range and didnt hurt anyone last turn.
raider squad 10 raider w/ dissie 1 dark lance 1 blaster. total points: 155 total kills:3.9629
39 points per kill
as you can see the raider squad has a better point to kill ratio. now lets look at what these two squads can take defensivly.
190 points of marines shooting at 24" away kill 5.629 and defeat the squad in 4 turns. not including the squad running off the board due to failed moral checks and being below half strength.
155 points worth of marines shooting at 24" away kill 4.592 and defeat the squad in 3 turns and then turn on the raider witch for some stupid reason is staying within range but still moving over 6" and they kill it in roughly 3 turns thus taking 6 turns to wipe out the squad. sure maybe the raider cant capture table quarters and what not but its still got a dissie on it and that hurts when your a marine.
so the squad is better defensivly and better offensivly then a large squad of warriors point for point when compared against marines. can you think of a better reason?
I think both have there place as Deathwish's large squad is badly designed and his raider squad.... different.
The way I play them the kill ratios are as follows
10 man raider squad, blaster, cannon, syb with ago total: 176
20 man foot squad, 2xblaster, 2x cannon, syb with ago: 216
Assuming both squads make it close enough in full fighting form
Raider squad will kill (including charging)
Thats 48.5 points per kill (in one turn)
Foot Squad will kill (including charging)
Thats 41.7 points per kill in opne turn
So why take the raider squad? Because the cahnce of making it to combat is higher and you are more likely to make it there with everything intact, in addition it is easier to position your squad. Personally I take a mixture of both for different purposes, but thats just me.
I use raider squads to compliment my large warrior squads, using a raider you can manuover around scenery and launch an assualt completely unscathed. (well, thats the aim at least)
A well equiped raider squad can tackle most marine tacticle and devastator squads. And if your raider survives after the drop-off it can hang around being annoying, draw off a squads firepower or something.
The ten man squad has to test for "running off the board" faster, it is more likely to die(before being unloaded), and (I don't know where the extra 5 points of marines came from or why more marines are shooting at the 20 man squad), but regardless 10 marines all with regular bolters shooting at 24" will cause: 6-7 hits, 1 glance, and then there is a 1 in 3 chance the raider will die and another 1 in 6 chance that it will have become useless(losing the dissie).Originally Posted by Deathwishjoe
I'm not saying that the raider squad is useless, or that it is crappy by comparison. Just that they both have advantages and disadvantages, so it depends on your play style for which is better.
On another note, look at the poster's name and # of posts. You just posted something on this DWJoe, so why even bother making a new post. Not to mention why name it this. Don't let yourself be goaded like this.
First of all, why would you get into close combat with the warriors. The shooting is so much better.A devastater squad would annahilate the raider. A heavy bolter could probably take care of the raider by itself. And a dev. squad will probably have a rocket launcher, which can easily take care of a raider.A well equiped raider squad can tackle most marine tacticle and devastator squads. And if your raider survives after the drop-off it can hang around being annoying, draw off a squads firepower or something.
If you want to shoot(because it is better and more effective than close combat)then you would want more heavy weapons. That means ten warriors with any combination of splinter cannons and dark lances for 100 points. Very cheap and can easily make up their points. If you want to do close combat, use wytches in a raider.
Horrorfex is the best weapon in the game IMHO
Well I have a simple theory about that.
If I want shooty squads I pick a large warrior squad 15+
If I want to assault I use wyches, thats what they were made for.
I only use raider squads when I know I'm going to need higher mobility than a FoF warrior has.
i'm talking about inside combat, you can manuover a raider to unload it's raider squad and have them charge in one turn, without the devastartors getting a shot off, fire a blaster and splinter cannon as you jump down, (or fleet if it's needed) charge, and let you sybarite with agoniser take out some marines. Obviously a raider squad isn't going to top devastators in shooting, Raider squads are designed to be mobile and devastators are designed to shoot.Originally Posted by poopface
I am agreeing with Maleficarum but i feel that a raider squad can be very useful, they only take up a troops slot after all and they can sort out one squad whilst wyches rip apart something else.
Why would you choose to use only wyches as your combat units, that limits you to 2-3 close combat units in your army whereas with the use of warriors you can have an entire close combat army if you want, although I prefer a more balanced approach close combat warriors have their place.
Your standard warrior is no worse off than any other standard troop choice in the game as far as number of attacks are concerned and in addition has the benefit of far superior stats for combat for a low low point cost. If you use your warriors only fro shooting you are wasting your I5 and WS4 both good, high characteristics, aginst most opponents, even elites you will be striking first and against most standard troops you are striking first at a better weaponskill!
Wyches are a specialist unit, good at taking out other specialist units, they don't do so well against standard troops,t hey should be used against elites adn HQ's whilst your humble warrior squads attack teh enemy troop choices, hitting them with a barrage of softening fire before assaulting.