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Hey all, I just started building up a nid army and I have a few questions. I have the basics: the battlefoce box and an extra box of gaunts. So I believe all together I have 16 Terms, 16 Horms, 3 Ripper swarms, 8 genesteelers, and a Carnifex. I know its not a lot, but I figure I could get started building strategies using the small force. I play dark eldar as well, so I know how to use fragile but deadly fast armies.
My questions go out are as follows:
1) Warriors: Since this is the only HQ choice I have, putting wings on them will make them fast attack and no longer count as a HQ choice? I know its in plain text in the Codex but I am just double checking.
2) What do I give the gaunts? I figured I give the gaunts Toxin sacs, adrenal gland, and fleshborers. If I drop off adrenals glands I know I could then take without number. For the limited number of models I have I believe this is worth it. Opinions?
3) For the horms, I figure I would add toxin sacs, adrenal gland for initiative and weapon skill. I think i would keep em with a brood of leaping warriors and try to get them into CC ASAP.
4) Ripper swarms... not sure what to do with them at all.
5) Warrios are my only HQ choice, thus I believe I cannot have them with wings. So my alternative is leaping. Scything talons and and rending claws would be placed on two, and the other I would equip with a venom cannon for at least some ranged support. Not really sure how to upgrade these if anyone has some suggestions.
6) Genesteelers: Extended carapace, sycthing talons, and toxic sacs. Granted this is very point heavy for these since the base is already 16. As I mentioned before, since I am limited to models I may as well upgrade them.
7) Carnifex: I have no idea... I have read in the forums that CC Carnis rarely ever CC. So then the alternative would be to make a shotty Carnifex. I am looking for advice on how to build this up. It looks to me like this would be my main point sink with a 85 point base and random other biomorphs and weapon symbiotes.
I know all in all I have a small weak force. I need to expand and truly gear my army to either CC or shooting (CC is my choice). If you have any advice for expansion as well I would appreciate it.
I just want to thank you all in advance for helping out a newb to 'Nids and taking the time to read this.
1. I wouldnt suggest the wings on the warriors at all. you cant add the extended carapace to them with only haveing a 5+ they will die quickly to bolter fire. for your only synapse you need them to stick around.Originally Posted by DarkAngel
2&3. Dont give your hormies anything they cost too much as is. as for the shooty ones its really up to you about the gun. that just has to goto a little play testing and how you want to field them.
4. its questionalble to field them because they can be instantly killed by S6 guns. but with leaping and Init they can be really fast and anyoying in compat. ps. thier cheap in points.
5. Making your warriors CC machines is my preffered way to take them. they will do good in CC if they get there.
6. Stealers are expensive to start so upgrading them isnt always the best idea. with nids they are strenght in numbers. more is always better. dont just give your guys upgrades to play bigger point games not a good idea for nids. bring them to your point level.
7. the fex that IMO should be ready for both CC and Shooty. I bring mine at around 200pts with Init, Barbed Strangler, Crushing Claws, Spine Banks, Reinforced Chitin, Bonded Exo, maybe a few other thing pending on how many points i have left.
8. Expand your force to your likeing. experiment with different units and bio morphs. you might find that you like some thing but not others.
I love fielding 10,000 points per-player. DECOS all the way baby.
Nurgle Demonic Legion: 19W-3L-5T.
Tyranid All Shooty List: 10W-5L-6T
Is it too much when you can field 20k in fantasy?
Want the optimal list with what you have? easy All this should give you about 680pt. You should plan on buying a tyrant next.
Warrior:They are better as fire support so I would give them: extended carapace, 1Xvenom cannon,2Xdeathspitter, 3xscything talon and enhance senses. cheap and effective
Hormagauts: D-O N-O-T G-I-V-E T-H-E-M A-N-Y U-P-G-R-A-D-E or they become WAY to expensive.
Gaunts: Spinegaunts are the most effective specie, period.
Genestealers: Extended carapace and nothing else. This will double their durability against bolters. You could stretch it to add scything talons but they will now be 23pt each.... The absolute worst thing you can so is to give them either acid maw or toxins sacs.
Rippers: They are fine the way they are, but slow, so you can give them leaping. NO UPGRADES FOR THEM OTHER THAN LEAPING.
Carnifex: Lesson 1 A good carni is not a cc carni. You already know that.
Lesson 2 Any army needs a little anti-tank Give him a venom cannon or a barbed strangler but restrain yourself of giving him to many upgrade.
Personally, I find the fex with a VC, BS, ES, +1 W, Scythe TAil, and EC works well. It comes to around 200pts, but is pretty effective at tank and infantry hunting. If it gets assaulted, then the scythe tail may help kill a few enemies with the S4 attacks.
40K armies: Tyranids (2001), Space Wolves (2008), Sisters of Battle (2011)
Current Rep: 1337
IMO, genestealers are the space marines of the nid army, therefore UPGRADE THEM, give them feeder tendrils, and implannt attack(i think you can do this) always, but try to keep em under 27 points(a nid army is all about having limits to points) and try to take em in squads of 8, cheaper pts. wise, and cash wise
get yourself a broodlord, and upgrade this as much as possible with feeder tendrils and/or implant attack(if its possible, cant remember the options) and give it a retinue of 8 broodlords are MANIACS on the field(i can hear it now: "Shes a maniac, maniac......")
carnifex's are awfully slow and not likely to make it to cc, and if they do it on the charge, as long as there is some additional support nearby, it should be fine in CC, therefore, make it a shooty beast with a venom cannon and barbed strangler, enhanced senses, extended carapace, and a venom cannon, dont take toxin sacs, on a shooty fex it is useless
hormogaunts, these are expensive enuff, dont upgrade em, as for your normal gaunts try termagants and spinegaunts or numberless spinegaunts, dont take (insert the name of the gun that is assault 2x here) they are useless, if you are gonna go for toxin sacs, i would put them on a spinegant, remember, the strength of the nids is not there abilities in cc or speed, BUT THE NUMBERS!!!!!!!
i find the ideal setup for troops choices to be 2x genestealers, 1x squad horms(about 16) 3x gaunts(1 spinegaunt, 2 w/o # spinegaunts, or vice versa)
eventually when it comes time to upgrade i would get some gargoyles, raveners and lictors, as well as more warriors
for now though make your warriors GODS of the field until you can get another hq choice and more SYNAPSE in the list!!!
Good luck finding someone who will let you use of brood of 9 Broodlords. Lol!Either that or use more capitals and punctuation... Lack of grammer has always really annoyed me.... Can't tell where sentences start and end without it....get yourself a broodlord, and upgrade this as much as possible with feeder tendrils and/or implant attack(if its possible, cant remember the options) and give it a retinue of 8 broodlords are MANIACS on the field(i can hear it now: "Shes a maniac, maniac......")
Anyways, personally, I'd say at most give stealers EC, Scuttlers, and ST. Personally, I'd keep with just the EC or EC and ST or EC and Scuttlers.
Last edited by Phalanx; July 25th, 2005 at 03:08.
40K armies: Tyranids (2001), Space Wolves (2008), Sisters of Battle (2011)
Current Rep: 1337
Genestealers should NOT be given anything else than ec.
NEVER give feeder tendrils to stealers. Do you guy realize they have a higher ws than the average space marine special caracter? ONLY give implant attack to the broodlord genestealer brood. Giving it to normal genestealers is overkill. DO NOT try to make uberstealers, this only proves youre a n00b.
Like ''OMG, +1 attack and +1str. Acid maw roXors! Flesh hooks pwn!!!!! lol rofl''
May the kid have fun with their 36pt stealers while the pro stick to EC.
Not going to give you much advice on the actual army list, just this. Dont try to make your guys more points for bigger games. Like if you have a chance to squeeze in 100 pts by upgrading all your stealers with something useless, dont. Its not worth giving someone else 100 points to make there army bigger. Say your against sm. They could get a small squad, or maybe a landspeeder, or maybe a razorback. And the same applies to everyone else. Numbers are your friends. If they get more shooting becuase of you wanting to get more points into your army, it means your not even going to make it to them, and those points you just spent, or wasted, just made it even easier for them to win. Of course if you just want to play with someone who wants more points then its up to you, but if you want to have a better chance, dont give them more points to kill you with.
Back from a long adventure.
First, while I wouldn't put it as harshly as Marc, I have to agree that beyond E.C. most of the upgrades on genestealers is just throwing points on to a unit that will either massacre in CC (w/o upgrades) or will get wasted on its way to CC.
1) I agree to beef these guys up a bit, BUT that means to make them more survivable, not to make them all around more powerful. If you pour too many points into this brood then that makes them all the more important to your opponent to take down. With any luck your opponents will lightly try to take your warriors out, but won't go too far out of their way. If you load them up, "Godlike", then they will probably have every gun on the other side of the table pointed at them. I would increase their Sv, give them R.C.'s & S.T.'s and give them leaping to keep up as best as possible with your gaunts.
2) Without numbers isn't worth it. Especially with a small group of very killable synapse creatures. Make a swarm to clog up the enemy so your Warriors don't die. Possibly make them faster and stronger if you HAVE to get to a certain point mark.
3) Maybe toxin sacs, but again only if you crave a certain point range.This is getting a bit too expensive. I would give them a role to play (like tying up the enemy or being a good solid punch. If you want the solid punch just give them toxin sacs and Init, otherwise just give them WS.Adrenal gland for initiative and weapon skill.
4) I think this has been covered. Leaping. If you had extra pts. left over you could add Spinefists since they don't get FoF anyway. Gives them something to do during the shooting phase. They are really just a tie up unit, so anything besides speed is probably just a waste here.
5)While I did suggest not to make them too good of a target I don't think the VC would break that rule. I think this is a decent idea. Pop a weak tank or small high T group. *shrug* Add E.C. and you should be set.Scything talons and and rending claws would be placed on two, and the other I would equip with a venom cannon for at least some ranged support.
6)I hate to hear that, but I know it holds true for me a lot of the time. As said above, if you need to meet a pt. mark then add some small stuff. The power-armor armies only get to add so much to each model pts. wise and I suggest the same for 'Nids. Except instead of 100 or 150 pts, make it around (roughly) 10 pts for most elites, 3 pts for troops, and the other things vary too much to put a point cost on.As I mentioned before, since I am limited to models I may as well upgrade them.
With the 'stealers E.C. is the only thing to add. Their strength and init. are just fine.
7) Phaet had something I really liked. I wouldn't take Init. because it will still be slower then pretty much everything, but the:,Barbed Strangler, Crushing Claws, Spine Banks, Reinforced Chitin, Bonded Exo
doesn't sound horrible for the pts. problem you seem to have.
I myself would make the Crushing Claws a V.C. and add Tusks and a Scythe Tail if I really wanted a multi. use 'fex. Also, I would not take +1 W, and take the +1 Sv instead.
I think you need to get a Tyrant before anything else. That will help you in whatever role you need once you see how you play, and then you can take all of these multiple role broods and make them fit a purer purpose (CC Warriors, fast Hormies, shooty Fex, etc.)
P.S. The "Space Marines" of the 'Nid army would probably be warriors. They survive about just as well, and have just about the same capability. Genestealers are more like the D.E. wyches of the 'Nid army. Great in close quarters, but man will they be worthless if you don't get them there properly.
Last edited by Menthalas; July 25th, 2005 at 05:00.
MarctheDwarf, you are the n00b here not I, the genestealers are the one unit in my army that is extensively upgraded, and there is a reason for that, as i play necrons(lots of em, with nightbringers in every army), khorne, and several other cc powerful armies, and when i go up against a bloodthirster or a nightbringer in cc(or a lord with lightening field and a retinue of scarab swarms), my gaunts usually get there arses kicked, and my other units are usually after weaker units( i dont want to risk my synapse) so i found the nead for a heavier cc unit, thus i found genestealers, creatures capable of inflicting several powerful hits quite easily, and able to give the prefered enemy special rule to my weaker low ws gaunts who usually had trouble hitting higher ws creatures, and as a plus each stealer was able to wound twice if it could bypass the excellent armor or invincible saves, and you know what IT HELPS JACKARSE!!!!!
also, i never take flesh hooks, there is no reason for them IMO, nor do i take acid maw, bio plasma is far superior IMO, and while we are on the topic of uber, in case you didnt notice, i dont make any other units "uber" my ht certainly isnt, nor are any of my warriors, or my carnifexes or gaunts for that matter, genestealers are the most "uber" units in the army and they are done so on purpose so i can use them instead of the all powerful synapse creatures that i prefer not to invest a lot of points in because they usually end up fightin the weaker things my opponents have to offer so i can keep there arses safe....
phalanx i meant gs retinue, dunno where my head is