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now i have never ever met any onw who uses shining spears
they have only 2 yese
that is cos they sound like a good idear and that you can have a bs5 brightlance
but those arnt realy very strong reasons
so with the possiblity of a new eldar codex what should the develors do with them so that that the live to being eleite eldar knights?
my thourgths as to make there lance like an imperila one but a bit better as well as its shooting though maby make that assault 2
also they should have some sort of skilled rider abbility from the rule book
and it gose with out saying that they should not cost 50 points 40 maby but not 50 its desugting!
what do you think
I think shining spears should be reduced to about 35pts if they remain un changed or that in oeder for them to stay at 50 they should all be given bright lance type weapons, maybe geared toward cc. As of the 3rd edition codex all of the jet bikes are horribly over priced compared to their counter parts in other armies, and need to be revamped at least pts wise
They are the spear of Khaine, said to kill anything with one stroke
So they SHOULD be super-devistating on the charge
Make their laser lances a s6 power weapon attack on the charge. The 'shot before impact' should also be s6 ap2.
Kill stuff on the charge. They should be the tip of the lance which penetrates the defenses, but not be able to win it alone. If unsupported, the enemy would most likely outnumber them and whittle them down afterwards. So after their impact, other guys need to join in to press on the numbers
im sorry but... S6 ap2 weaponry on the charge? personally (i have had a brief dabble with eldar) increasing their combat prowess on the charge is a good idea - so yeah, a powerfist that doesnt strike last on the charge sounds good. i would however tune the ap2 idea down to ap 3 or even 4. but aside from that it sounds like a good idea.
at least that way if their devastating charge fails they stand a good chance of losing... if they fail their initial assault
(the idea of an assault 2 ap 2 weapon AND powerfist in one round just seems overpowered)
Apathy is its own reward...
If they make the attack ap4, no one would use the spears and they would once again get stuck on that dust covered shelf next to the other useless junk. Why you ask? Because ap4 is nod good enough to kill space marines, and sincethe marines are THE most common adversary in the universe, no-one will waste time and money on a unit that doesent do well against them. I know I wouldnt.Originally Posted by Malignant_one
yeah, but ap 2 is TOO good, im sorry, for an assault 2 weapon on the charge thats S 6 AP 2 i wouldnt expect you to pay LESS than 80 points a model at best, factoring in the already mentiond powerfist (effectively) on the charge at initiative value AND the fact that they are jetbikes. 2 of those attacks plus 2(?) melee attacks on the charge is WAY too powerful.
they shouldnt be able to kill 200+ points of termies on a whim, otherwise they would just be too good.
i was thinking of the laser lance more like an ork burna - the "tip" is insanely deadly, as thats where all the power is focused, the ranged attack isnt nearly as dangerous, but still nasty. think about it. 3 shining spear on the charge = 6 S6 attacks. thats not bad (that is of course if they get any rules like this at all)
with the little powerfist trick they could make a serious dent in whatever they hit anyway. is that not enough?
and if you are fighting space marines bring out the star cannons and play with those.
Apathy is its own reward...
Termies are supposed to be vulnerable for their points, plus they have inv. saves that will negate at least some of the bonus for ap2. Using your reasoning, should banshees be 50 pts a model?
That's also a good idea. I'd be fine with that.Originally Posted by Malignant_one
using his reasoning- banshees don't move as fast as jetbikes, nor is their attack s5 or 6. I'd say his argument is a valid one.
Last edited by LostZaku; July 27th, 2005 at 03:01.
I say, simply make the laser lance S6. Make it cut armor on the charge, and give them the S6 AP2 laser attack WHEN CHARGING. That means that 3 of them charge, you have 9 S6 armor ignoring attacks, on the charge and 3 S6 attacks when not charging. The only real shooting that they have are the TL shuricats on the bike.
That MIGHT make them worth it. 50 pts is still a tall order, though, given that they have 1 wound apiece and are so easy to kill. Maybe give them 2+ save or a 4++ save (not both)
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dont forget on the charge you get an extra attack. so 3 bikes on the charge = 6 laser lance and 6 melee 'fists.
and my reasoning for the 80 points per model was powerfists at initiative value, with 2 AP 2 shooting attacks on the charge (before blows are struck) AND the extra toughness, save and speed conferred by a bike... its a lot to ask for on just one model - and factoring in that this unit could then consolidate and charge another unit, it would just be way too powerful.
tone down the AP and the cost can start to drop drastically. (personally i still feel AP 4 is a much fairer number, and could lead to the units costing 40/50 points a model - playtesting pending naturally, after all those initiative value powerfists still remain). They would still have those 2 strength 6 laser lance attacks, which is still nasty.
i dont feel that howling banshees are overpriced at all. after all - THEY are only strength 3. their advantage comes from not being overpowerful, whilst still being effective at what they do (mmm unit of power weapons). which is what i feel these guys should do. not just demolish anything they hit without a second thought.
to farseer shield - it sounds like you only want an army that can wipe out an entire force of space marines by the end of turn 1. i think the idea behind these shining spear suggestions is sound. however in games terms a unit that can cut a swathe through an entire army should also hold a points cost to match.
i was under the impression the laser lance could only work on the charge anyway. although something like a permanent 5+ (or even 4+) jink save doesnt sound to bad.
on another thought - with dire avengers - maybe if they were rending with their shuirken catapults, or could have fusion blasters (or power weapons - up to 3 in total in a squad maybe?) - lending them tactical flexibility. not to mention giving the entire squad save 3+. at maybe 14/15 points a model (with rending) or 12ish without rending (but with the option for the weapon upgrades, i think having both rending AND weapon upgrades would be too much).
i thought it would be fun and make them useful, not to mention explain WHY they would be the "most common" of the aspects. what do you guys think? (i could only think of "fusion blasters" when it came to assault style weaponry. im not sure what else eldar have...
Last edited by Malignant_one; July 27th, 2005 at 20:26.
Apathy is its own reward...