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Having played Tyranids since late 2nd edition and played a few games under these new 3.5 rules, I've noticed that TMC are no longer the CC beasts they used to be. The major factor leading to this is the fact that vet sergants and exarches can no longer be targeted. Combine that with already hidden power fists and its now risky to charge a tyrant into a squad of marines alone. Sure you may kill the marine squad, but only after you take 2 or so wounds from a sergeant along the way. Combine that with 1-2 wounds taken before CC or immediately after and you have a tyrant punked pretty easily by a sergeant.
In general, its more important for your TMC to be able to scythe through the whole infantry unit quickly. Granted, a winged tyrant with double scything talons still has a lot of attacks, but its also expensive and apt to be alone and vulnerable. Timing out your attack with multiple units is possible, but this still relegates your TMC to more of a support unit then it once was. When sergeants could be picked out, TMC could confidently wade into a CC and disembowel a whole squad with little fear of reprecussion.
So what is the solution to this? It seems like TMC have gotten better at shooting. The barbed stragler and twin linked devourer's are amazing. Being able to fire two guns....
I think more shooty TMC's will become more and more common as the codex happens. A good example is the Venom Cannon/Barbed straggler fex that is so common now? A even better build is the venom cannon/twin devourer Hive Tyrant. Plus the base CC stats of a base tyrant are still pretty damn good? How about unit killing in CC as opposed to character hunting? I think that genestealers and raveners will fill this role now. Using rending and tons of standard attacks to quickly melt through a squad to get to the sergeant. Combine with the ability of raveners not to get instakilled if in synapse range...
In essence, the TMC's will try to reduce squad size of enemy as much as possible by shooting and the genestealers/raveners/rending warriors will try to clean up the rest of the squad through rending. Gaunts chip in and can kill the lighter stuff, but can also try to tie up a flank while your renders are chewing up one side.
Independent characters can still be nasty, but a ton rending is a fairly effective counter as is the cheap broodlord. If these can weaken down the IC and also remove its squad....a shooty tyrant/fex can pop it in CC, shooting, or even tie it up with gaunts forever....
Just noticed this new "trend" for tyranid TMC's in my game and was wondering if anyone else noticed it as well.
Im pretty sure they are just MCs now but I agree completly with you except I think that GW is gonna lessen up alittle (Alot) on the charaters or make them where its real expensive to make them 1 man armies.
Any relation to hoya4life? Im guessing your like a brother or something.
Personally, I really hate the shift from cc to fire support. I hate the whole ''bugs with gun''. When I showed my parent my army, they where really surprised to see some huge carnifexes with guns. For me, it is really hard to Imagine tyranids aiming with threre bioweapons. Instead of making tyranids more shooty, they should have made them even stronger in cc.
I actually never had the pleasure of playing under the 2nd ed. Tyranid rules. After looking at a few of the CC biomorphs TMC's (which is what they were called at the time) could take like Acid Spray (oh, man!), I was saddened. So cool and effective all at once...and now what is it we get? Bio-plasma? Pft!
Poison Tentacles (or something like that) were definitely noteworthy as well.
I also have seen the change in being more "killy" to supportive, and that is why I keep my Hive Tyrants cheap. Their basic statline is rather decent for but 75 points.
I like mine with Rending Claws. The extra D6 for Armor Pen. is really nice and, while most of you must think me mad if I actually plan on taking the thing into assault over another with dual Scything Talons, I've done the math before and can safely say that it's more effective than you think.
My only real beef with tyranids is that they are an army designed around getting there quickly and doing a lot of CC damage. Why does this bother me? Cause there's still an army out there that does this better, faster and stronger; Dark Eldar.
A squad of Wyches in a Raider (Heck, anything in a Raider will get into CC faster than a Tyranid) gets there faster, has a better initiative, has a better save in CC and will most likely break any non-fearless units that they charge. What's so annoying about it is these things are troops choices in a Wych cult. Give me a break.
If I'm not mistaken, a Raider can only move 12" a turn. Gargoyles can only move 12" a Movement phase and may move an additional D6 during the Shooting phase (FoW). Thus, effectively making it faster than a Raider and disproving your point.
However, Raiders are definitely awesome for how many points they're worth -- as are most things the DE range has to offer. I believe that they're way overdue for an update and pray that it comes soon as my friend who would like to take them up is losing interest and fast.
If I remember correctly models die from base to base contact first, just make sure htat you are rubbing noses with the vet sarge and so on.
Sith Happens and Jedi cause it,
Tyranids - 3000pts
Thousand Sons - 500pts
Raiders can move up to 24" if they so choose and on the cahrge a unit from a raider gets 12" raider move 2" disembark + 1d6" fleet (they get that too) plus 6-12" charge depending on drugs. So therefore faster than anything tyranids have.Originally Posted by 1337 Steet
Doesn't work like that anymore. Models must be removed from the killing zone (models in base contact or within 2" of those in base contact), but any model in that zone can be a casualty.Originally Posted by Decaffeinated_Wonk
DE in Raiders are just as fast as gargoyles, hormagaunts and raveners. They move 12" in the Raider, get out, fleet, and then assault. If you use the 2" for the disembark, they are 2" faster. If they are wyches and roll 12" assault for the combat drugs, they are 8" faster. DE have a huge vulnerability when in their raiders though. Shoot down the raider and half the squad is dead. Using raiders also limits them to 10 man squads. Get a chance to shoot them and they die horribly and they don't have numbers or synapse to keep them around.
Artificial Intelligence is no match for Natural Stupidity.