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Alright I'm trired of continualy having to complain about the lack of variety in my army. What would you guys change or add in the Necron codex if they were to realease a new one? I will list my revisions below:
Pariahs: God are these units crappy as they stand. If somthing is changed, it has to be these guys. Here's How I'd change them: Dropped to 30 points, NOT given WBB, given I4, Allowed to use the monolith teleport and the Veil of Darkness. I'd of course be willing to give up the souless ability (not the fluff of course) to keep the points lower.
Flayed Ones: While I love these buggers, they really aren't very cost effective. I don't have any stat changes but abilities like Terrifying Visage are just menial. I would like to see rending as it makes sense. Or a power weapon option would also fit the bill.
Warriors: Again, not to much wrong with these guys, but I want to add some much needed CC ability. My suggestion would be to have a sergeant type avaliable. Perhaps just simply a Pariah (the one I discribed above of course) would fit the bill. It may be to much to ask for but I would like to see a bumb to I3. I mean they currently strike slower than a normal human, thats just lame.
Wraiths: Just make these unit sizes 3-6 and that would fix all the problems for me. I would greedily like to see a power weapon option but that may make them too powerful.
You realize your suggestions only changed existing units, so the variety really isn't effected too much. It's no ones fault but your own if you refuse to deploy different units.Originally Posted by thedrifter777
New Variety in an army=New UnitsI don't mean to offend, but that sounded like powergaming filth to me. Never defend a suggestion by saying you want it "so it can keep points down." Following fluff, I would keep them as is but make them Necrons with the WBB roll. They are the forefront of Necron Tech and should count as such IMO.Originally Posted by thedrifter777Terrifying Visage is one of the points of the unit. They where the flesh of their enemies, freshly rended. That said, rending would be nice.Originally Posted by thedrifter777I like the fact that they strike slower than humans. I see them as taking their sweet, methodical time dicing up the pathetic humans. They are one of the toughest troops in the Universe and have some of the best weapons as well. Try teleporting them out of CC.Originally Posted by thedrifter777I LOVE Wraiths. That said, they really do need help. Their weapons really should be Power Weapons IMO. If you have the tech to make something like a Wraith, you have the tech to make their weapons powered. Then the whole 1-3 in a squad would be worth it.Originally Posted by thedrifter777
Minimal changes to a system that works is the key to getting things accepted. Important movements in history happen over time, very rarely in a single moment.
That said, the Necrons have had ages and ages to deal with this stuff, and everything has worked. "New" units? Fluffwise...not going to happen. The Pariah gives an interesting option though. It being a meld of Necron and Human, why not have a few more meldings? Twist the Eldar a bit more, get their hands on some Tau perhaps?
Still, the list could use a bit more. I just really don't see anything they would need. They don't have any light tanks, but they have Heavy destroyers, which are light tanks in their own way. Ditto for anything else compared to other armies.
Sig by:Knape, The Celestial, and Marlinspike, thanks guys!
Nothin personal Shas'o Tau Dev'n Kauyon, but plz don't patronize me like I've never played Necrons before. There are very clear right and wrongs with the current necron army and thus army lists look identical. I don't play with most units as they just arn't worth it unless I'm having a freindly game. Warriors, Immortals, Destroyers, Scarabs, and the monolith are arguabley the most consitant units the Necron force and thus variety is low.You realize your suggestions only changed existing units, so the variety really isn't effected too much. It's no ones fault but your own if you refuse to deploy different units.
New Variety in an army=New UnitsI must respectfully disagree with this whole statment. Its not "powergamming filth" to be willing to sacrifice abilities to keep point low on a unit. If I want Pariahs buffed they shouldn't have awesome abilities as well. And if they did they would cost a boatload more points than they currently do, which is something I would like to avoid. Also, having WBB is a contradiciton of Pariahs fluff. While they are a symbious of Necron Technology and Humanity, they still have breakable stuff underneath. Think Gen. Grevious from Episode 3. Having WBB would make no sense as there is organic to repair.I don't mean to offend, but that sounded like powergaming filth to me. Never defend a suggestion by saying you want it "so it can keep points down." Following fluff, I would keep them as is but make them Necrons with the WBB roll. They are the forefront of Necron Tech and should count as such IMO.
Now that out of the way, let me rephase my opening sentance. I want to hear what anyone out there would change if a new codex is released. That includes new unit ideas. I personally feel that more variety can be added by simply making all 11 unit choices more worth buying and thus my revision ideas.
Idea 1:Originally Posted by thedrifter777
I would like to see their points flat-out chopped (down to around 22-24 points each). Let their 0-1 designation balance their cost and add a line to their description stating that no matter how many FOCs a player has access to, a single Necron army can never have more than 10 pariahs. You only get 10, but they should nearly be a no-brainer.
Take the pariah "attempt" in Necron Elite, and scrap it completely. Just dump them. Instead, give us a new pariah that is an independent character with a very basic statline somewhere inbetween a human and a necron, the souless and psychic abomination rules, and somewhere in the neighborhood of two pages of options with a very high upper spending limit that turns the unit into an HQ choice if its cost goes above a certain cost. Start the thing out at 20 points for a basc statline, with an upper limit being in the neighborhood of a C'tan
for both points and power.
Also...give us some freaking acces to an Animus Speculum please. How in the heck did the Imperium (of all things) get access to better technology than the Necrons?Rending? Ahhh...no. Way too powerful for their statline. Imagine a geanstealer with a 3+ save...Flayed Ones: While I love these buggers, they really aren't very cost effective. I don't have any stat changes but abilities like Terrifying Visage are just menial. I would like to see rending as it makes sense. Or a power weapon option would also fit the bill.
Personally I say either drop their points from 18 to 15 and move them to troops, or fix Horrifying Visage so that the term LEADERSHIP TEST actually differs from MORALE TEST (make the ability actually worth a damn against disgustingly powerful fearless enemy melee troops like it should be). Then tack an optional -3 to enemy leadership against horrifying visage for like 3 points per model and all is good.Oh please god no! No Sergeants. If I want sergeants, i'll go play marines thanks. Leave the faceless legions alone. Warriors definetly need access to options, but they should NOT be made availiable through any kind of necron warrior that stands alone in the sea of steel.Warriors: Again, not to much wrong with these guys, but I want to add some much needed CC ability. My suggestion would be to have a sergeant type avaliable. Perhaps just simply a Pariah (the one I discribed above of course) would fit the bill. It may be to much to ask for but I would like to see a bumb to I3. I mean they currently strike slower than a normal human, thats just lame.
I've said it before, and I'll say it untill my voice gives out: don't give one warrior an upgrade and call him a sergeant/weapon 'cron/n-exarch/etc, give them ALL Gauss Blasters and call them immortals!
Faceless! Faceless! Faceless! Faceless! Faceless!
Give personalization to those who diserve it: The Lords![/quote]Wraiths: Just make these unit sizes 3-6 and that would fix all the problems for me. I would greedily like to see a power weapon option but that may make them too powerful.
Once again, no. They're fine in groups of 1-3. Just please either drop their points to 40, or give them disruption fields and bump them to 50 each (or even 45). Just please fix the 41 points per model that keeps screwing up my army comp! I'm sick of running 1998, 1999, and 2001 point lists when I could be running 2000 point lists just because of the extra ONE POINTS on the wraith's cost.
My Additions: You wanted my suggestions...so here they are (well...some of them anyway)...
One word: customization. This is where a necron army's character should be. At the top of the pecking order; the guy(s)/gal(s) in charge. I want like 2-3 pages of stuff just for these guys so that I can make them my own (just them), and the rest of the list can stagnate for all I care (well...that's an exaduration. The rest of the list needs work bad.)
I want to be able to make lords of all shapes and sizes, and the lords themselves should be able to influience their FOCs.
Some lords might favor a faster, more mobile approach to combat and sport either a destroyer body or wings or a phase-capable wraith body (3+ invuln save). While this speed demon-type lord replaces necron fast attack choices for troops at a discount, Immortals and the Monolith are forbidden to him (too slow) and necron warrior squads are availiable only as elites but are all equiped with veils of darkness and can teleport around the board at will for 24 points a piece.
Other Lords might be more like big blunt-objects with legs and guns. The lord himself either sports a destroyer body with an additional +1 toughness (T7) and +1 strength but movement ability like a tomb spyder, or a huge monstrous creature body. Meanwhile his signature Immortal-Goliaths are like standard necron immortals with squad size 2-5, gauss cannons, +1 wound, +2 toughness, and are counted as monstrous creatures due to their great size. Additionally, because this lord believes in strength, not just physical but of numbers, his necron warriors come in squads of 20-40 rather than 10-20 but only cost 15 points per model (because the rest of the army would comprise of monstrous creatures, destroyers, and monoliths and cost a minimum of nearly 80 points each.)
Of course this isn't counting the lords who jelously guard their tomb worlds from all agressors and lead giant swarms of scarabs and tomb spyders from below the sands. This lord is mounted on a body reminescent of a black widow spider's abdomen and thorax and moves like a beast (in rules and in fluff) using his twin warscythes to carve up all who stand in his way. Or maybe this lord was female in life and gets this "Mistress of the damned"/techno-undead Cliopatra-thing goin' on while she leads her construct army to battle from a throne mounted on a battle-platform resembling a mini-monolith. Under his/her command are seemingly endless swarms of scarabs running the gamut from normal necron scarabs, to scarabs who resemble nothing more than grav-drive propeled gauss-acceleration chambers, to true harvest scarabs made from the same living metal as their necron creators with powerful auto-repair systems that can evoke self-repair even after a bolter has created a hole in a scarab that's bigger than the scarab origionally was. Occompaning them are legions of tomb sypders of all types from the normal tomb spyders reported as maintaining known tomb worlds, to spyders mounting advanced targeting systems and two partical projectors, to harvest-class scorpion atomatons with powerful tail-mounted gauss weapons and warscythe-like claws.
And all the above is just the lords. The same really should be done with pretty much every unit in the list...
...of course that's just me. I'm just bitter because Chaos Chosen have more possible configurations than OUR ENTIRE ARMY.
Last edited by Arandmoor; August 6th, 2005 at 21:47. Reason: clairification...I shouldn't write anything this long at 3 in the morning...
Wake. Rise. Destroy. Conquer.
We have done so once. We will do so again.
Hmmm...My thoughts on this...
As for the current units in our codex I would change one thing. MAKE FLAYED ONES TROOPS! I love these guys. Not only do they look killer(pun intended :rolleyes: ) but thier ability to deep strike anytime keeps my opponents guessing, not to mention they are the only infiltrators we've got. The problem is that to really be effective you need more than one squad. Like warriors they become much more survivable w/ a second/third squad accompanying them. But to do this you've just used up you're elite slots. I admit the terrifying visage rarely works by itself but in conjunction w/ Lord w/ gaze or Pariahs it gets a little better (in my opinion GW has made LD based obilities all but pointless).
As for additions...
Besides a new C'tan I hadn't given it much thought, but I must say ARANDMOOR, I love where you're going w/ this. I currently try to theme my armies around which lord I field and the idea of giving him even more character is awesome! I feel extremely robbed w/ our current wargear section and feel MUCH more should be added to it (then there's the Tau wargear section but thats going off topic). Damned imperials get all kinds of swag.
As for seargents in squads...
I reitterate ARANDMOOR, do not put faces to the faceless! We long ago traded our individuality for the chance to kill for eternity. only the C'tans' strongest supporters were granted the ability for a little free thought(lords). I like the idea of extra abilities for the squads though. A viel of darkness upgrade for a squad would be awesome but I think it should be 3 pts a model. That puts it at 60 for squad of 20. Should also allow them to deep strike. How about a lightning field upgrade w/out lord present? I know its not so good against tougher opponents but it could help balance our low # of attacks. While we're at it, a chronometron upgrade? Simple additions like this would help add some flavor to our "faceless" troops w/out sergeants.
As for neww troops...
I can't think af any as colorful as the last post so I've got nuthin'.
Arandmoor, Phase Out, you both have fantastic ideas, although I must particularly tip my hat to Arandmoor. I absolutley love the idea of custimizable necron lords with FOC benefits and changes. Perhaps a system similar to the doctrine choices that Imeprial Guard have. Something like if your lord takes X,Y,Z wargear, you can select from FOC changes A or B. It sounds a little complicated but I think it could work.
Phase Out, I like the idea of a unit like warriors choosing some wargear, but I think its a bit hard to implament without a sergeant type charcter. Let me take a moment to clarify, I don't wish to see sergeants as unique characters like SM, IG, or any other army, I just wanted to have a selectable unit for my warriors to help them combat their CC faults. It is logical to assume that the cool and calculating necrons would realize they should mix their forces together to create an even stronger unit.
Yeah. Necrons already have more special rules than any other two armies combined (except maybe if you combine orks and eldar) so a big somewhat complex system probably won't faze your average necron player too badly.
Anyway, I came up with this last night:
Presently, phase out is a very simplistic "you lose" rule. Personally I think the rule is both a little too simple and too annoying (granted it works, and it's not broke...but it's seriously something that can be done better)
When a Necron unit begins to take levels of damage that might impede their auto-repair systems, Necron tomb ships and tomb worlds activate extremely powerful recall systems to teleport their immortal warriors away from the battlefield. While mainly there to facilitate unit repair in a safe location, it is also there to prevent irrepariable damage to units who have been overpowered and to preserve resources by reclaiming them before they can be scattered over the battlefield.
First, We'll Be Back does not change. Any successfully scored wounds are represented by necron models turned on their sides where they stood before. Phase Out, instead of handing the necron player an automatic loss whenever he loses 75% of his force, would instead be represented by an additional penalty upon failure of various leadership tests.
When a Necron unit fails a leadership test taken for taking 25% shooting casualties, losing close combat, or being hit by an ordanance blast the unit automatically fails the WBB rolls for any models presently on their sides due to wounds and additionally loses 1d6 more models as the units begins to phase out.
If a Necron unit is successfully caught in a sweeping advance, instead of being automatically destroyed the unit loses an additional 1d6 models.
Actually, now that I think of it...this would be easier to handle than trying to remember what 25% of my force is all the time.
I also like the idea of having some sort of defense against sweeping advance. Necrons are all about "we don't go away!" yet we can lose 20-man units to a single chaplin in artificer armor with lightning claws and a jump pack to one bad roll on turn 2 (I've had it happen before...no assault marines...just a single Chaplin)
Also, we're suposed to be mindless machines (well...the majority of us anyway...) with less warp presence than the Tau. Is asking for something to represent this too much to ask? My lord doesn't have a soul...how can an Uthwe farseer blow his head up with a mindwar? He hasn't had a "mind" of his own for 60,000,000 years! (far longer than that puny farseer has been alive...)
Suggested New Rules:
Souless Automatons: Necrons lack minds and warp presence, and so are not affected by psychic powers that target the mind. If a psychic power forces a necron unit to take a moral test, the morale test is automatically passed with no roll needed. If a psychic power forces a Necron unit or model to make an opposed leadership test, the necron unit or model automatically wins the test with no roll needed. Additionally, necrons are immune to the souless rule posessed by the Pariahs and Culexus assassins.
To counter-balance this, necron units are vulnerable to psychic powers that directly inflict damage as the warp is anethma to them. If a psychic power attacks with a weapon profile, the profile's strength is counted as being a point higher when targeting a necron unit. Example, a psychic power deals 1d6 assault attacks at S4 from 24". Against necrons, it would be S5.
Also, TheDrifter, Necron units are specialized. We don't need a unit that's generally good at everything (one of the other reasons I don't like pariahs). If a unit of warriors needs help in CC, charge in with a unit of Flayed Ones. Necron army synergy exists on the unit level, and that is where it should stay.
Last edited by Arandmoor; August 6th, 2005 at 21:50.
Wake. Rise. Destroy. Conquer.
We have done so once. We will do so again.
I have seen this said before but since we are talking revisions here, I think it should be brought up. Necrons devoted to specific C'tan. perhaps like a mark of Chaos?
And I would also like to see traitor Adeptus Mechanicus or Iron Hands Marines. Some of them worship Necrons because they are living machines. I think they would make for a nice Troop choice.
As for Pariahs, I think something should be done with them. I dont know what, but I dont like 'em as is. They just dont perform for me.
I think Flayed Ones have gotta be upgraded somehow. Maybe Power Weapon option, prehaps Rending, but this has already been said. either that or make them a Troop.
Give Wraiths Power weapons or Rendiong or somthing. I love em already, but they could , and should, be better.
I really like the idea of customizable Lords. Very nice! Always wanted to do it!
First things first, i would want to see Flayed Ones changed to troops, and PLASTIC FLAYED ONES MODELS. That alone would make me happy with a new necron codex (going to be waiting a long time for it might i add).
I agree necrons need to remain faceless legions past lords and c'tan, but i think people have to be careful with this aspect of the necrons. As it stands right now 'crons are a VERY bland army. How to make them more interesting, without ruining the idea of the faceless legion? Customize the army lists based on which c'tan the army is in service of. This might not work so well if they don't introduce at least one of the new c'tan with a new codex, but i can dream can't I? It wouldn't have to be anything major like with marks of chaos, just minor little things to customize the ever so bland necron warrior, and perhaps a special elite choice (example: pariahs would only be used by the deciever, with new units being introduced for the other c'tan), and then limit other things. Leave one of the c'tan undiscovered and have those waiting for his awakening be a 'vanilla' army, with all basic options open. Personally i would love it if they took an idea like this and ran with it, but even just a small change involving new units and certain restrictions would be nice. Essentially you're creating the equal of space marine chapters, or eldar craftworlds, or ork clans, but really is that such a bad thing? There would only be 4 choices, and like i said, they could be very very minor army list restrictions. At the very least it would end a bit of whining from opponents ('o great, the exact same necron army list as the last guy had' perhaps to 'o you're playing a nightbringer list eh? last guy i played had a deciever list').
Anyway, thats what I would like to see.
Edit: Ack, i missed Apostle's post. He beat me to the 'in the service of a specific c'tan' idea.
Last edited by SendMoreParamedics; August 11th, 2005 at 07:01.
Personally I hate the idea of C'tan specific necron forces.
Bear with me on this...
If you give a marine, chaos, Tau, eldar, or ork (etc) army a special character that affects the makeup of his army you don't limit yourself in the future because you have the option of just making up more characters every time you have a neat idea.
Do the same for the Necrons with the C'tan, and you (presently) limit yourself to four choices. Ever.
While I personally think that Necrons deadicated to following a specific necrons go together like peanutbutter and chocolat (mmm...reases...) I would prefer to option my army by a different standard (in my case the necron lord...but anything will do so long as it's not a c'tan) and then just say that he's deadicated to a spefic c'tan.
If I'm serious about it I'll follow the provided fluff as much as I can.
Wake. Rise. Destroy. Conquer.
We have done so once. We will do so again.