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Basicallymost of the Elite slots are taken up by Crisis suits, but I'm thinking about more stealth suits instead. So, I'd have 3 crisis in an HQ slot, 3 crisis in an ELite slot, and 6 stealth suits in each of the other two ELite slots.
You can also think of the stealths as replacements for FW.
See, I very often play 40 FW, having been told that this is where the strength of the Tau lies. But the problem with this is not that the FW get assaulted (enemies have to wade through a lot of fire to assault them, and by the time they do, I don't much care.) but rather that very often the FW don't have a target in range. Stealths on the other hand always have a target in range, and they are very hard to kill, mostly due to the night fight rules to spot, their ability to jump behind cover, or simply jump away. the 30 pts per wound I was always afraid of, but the fact of the matter is that they are way more useful than FW and at least as suvivable per pt.
Please, tell me your thoughts.
Well, 12 Stealths isn't such a bad idea, but I have a problem with your other lineups for suits:
3 suits in HQ = big no-no. Bodyguards are too expensive and also get rid of your HQ's IC status.
3 suits in Elites = eh, I don't like it. Too many, really, which can turn into overkill and provides a nice, juicy target. Couple of Missile Launchers and they're gone.
Personally, if I wanted that many Stealths, I'd go with something like:
HQ: 2x Shas'el, one w/ TwL-Missile Pod, Plasma, HW MT and the other w/ TwL-Plasma, Fusion, HW MT. Or something similar, specialising the IC.
Elites: 2x squads of 6 Stealths, 1x Monat Team Leader Crisis w/ TwL Plasma, Fusion (or MP), HW MT.
Something along the lines of that. But that's just what I'd use.
You only need those sort of amounts of crisis in 2500p games.
I'd use 12 stealths in anything 1750p or more, because you need the fire power.
At the 1500p level, 6 stealths and a couple of crisis suffice.
If you want 12 stealths at the 1500p level then you could have a good list. It just sounds a little cheesy.
at high point level yes at low no (high 1500 and up low 1499 and lower). but it would be fun to have that many shot's from them. //_^
<span style='font-size:21pt;line-height:100%'><span style='color:gray'>Snipers Never Miss</span></span>
The thing thats puzzling me is why are your FW out of range, they have a 30" range with pulse rifles, are you using carbines? if you are dont, they are a waste of time, use the PR range and rapid fire. Are you setting up too far back towards your lines, remember you can always move backwards if needed, but set up to utilise the 30" range of the PR.Originally Posted by Sir_Prometheus
I use 4 squads of FW, 3 of them static and they usually fire in each turn.
Stealths are ok I am starting to use a six man squad myself, If you take 2 HQ and 2 elites slots that gives you max 8 XV8 suits and thats plenty even in 2000pts. I take 4 XV8's and the Stealths.
Stealths are not a replacement for infantry they are used very differently, use them to harrass the enemy, a 6 man squad is plenty and you will still have the FW squads.
FW squads are the important so max out with them as much as you can to fit your list. 40 FW really is not a lot most lists have at least 3 in 1500pts and to me thats a minimum.
Um, my crisis suit arrangement isn't really up for debate here. I've experimented with many different arrangements of suits, and I am aware of the point costs implicit in the the retinue setup.
I have six crisis suits. Sometimes I use them all, sometimes I don't. For various reasons I have found it better to package my Shas'O with two more suits, and the retinue at least get wargear. I am also fond of occaionally having just one suti with a fusion blaster and flamer, to drop behind enemy lines and cause havok. 12 stealths does not leave room for that, however. I tend in general to load my suits lighter--just one main system TL with whatever else I euip them with. TL missle and drones, say. The retinue I tend to have more fully kitted out with multi-trackers.
I like my crisis suit combinations. The tactics you guys suggest I have all tried even suggested before you. From experience and experiment I have had reason to believe my current way of doing things is better.
Anway.......yes, my FW often do not have a target. I typically have 4 groups of 10, more or less spread evenly across my deployment. First turn is usually a little dry. After that, heck, there's terrain on the board. People try to avoid LOS. Certainly my FW do get shots, probably even more than 50% of their shooting phases they have a target. But the FW are essentiall stationary, and opportunities to shoot are wasted. Sometimes I shoot a less than ideal target. I'll tell you ususally there's at least one squad, ususally that I put on the 4th floor of a building, that spends most of the game quiet.
I own two Devil Fish, but have stopped using them. WHen I take them, I am usually regretful of it. Fish of Fury is sometimes fun, but usually more effort that it's worth. It also ususally requires me to go through the movement and assault rules with my opponenet in great detail, and aggravates them.
Essentially, this is a DF alternative.
Originally Posted by Sir_Prometheus
You say you have 40 FW and your wanting to take 12 Stealths well unless you have them in teams of 4 or even less the most target units your going to hit is 3 and then if a stealth gets killed you lose three shots. You have a lack of range with th Burst cannons to which means your really going to have to be lucky or very close to get all the shots in.
I think in reality with 2 teams of 6 stealths you are not going to see any impovement in kill to shot ratio.
Stealths fit a very specific role in Tau lists and its not as infantry. No target is less than ideal if you can kill it kill it, and who says that your opponent is going to put all his prime targets in range of your Stealths, the same thing will happen, line of sight blocked by terrain, moving the unit away from your stealths etc.
You should re think your XV8 stratagy you can take team leaders cheaper and they get access to the armoury and they dont take away your Commanders IC status, just put him close to a TL. Retinues are bad news. and flamers should be leftin the bits box they are useless.
I hate FoF too, but DF and FW do have their uses, I take 1 unit in a DF and use them to get around my lines fast as reinforcement etc.
As for the 4th floor unit, well just dont put em in a building if it doesn't work give it the elbow.
If your current way of doing things is better then why are you having problems, You should rethink how your using your FW, how your deploying, how your using the other parts of the list, puish the enemy towards your lines, deny him terrain by using the XV8,s and stealths, use the HH to hit transports and deny movement in quarters. Use the list as a whole, the FW are vital they are the anchor to any list they control 30" of field with those guns, control the rest with the other parts of the list. Harrass him with the fast elements, Tau are good at getting to parts of the table and putting enough fire power down to take it, and finally move the FW they are not static they can move and fire so if the enemy is close enough do it.
Go for it, man.
Stealth Suits can fill any roll necessary, with the exception of antitank(which they could kinda do with a ML and some Seeker Missiles...). At 1500 points, I run 18 of them. I don't regret it for a minute. As a matter of fact, the times I have tried to run fewer, I got whooped...bad. Perhaps they just fit my style of play. Its a Mech list, so small arms fire is pretty much useless against my army. They can't hurt my vehicles, and they can't see my Stealth Suits.
They are delicate if someone gets within the proper range, or if some dedicated assault hits them, but thats the risk you run. Thats why my rule, "Don't bring one squad when you can bring two" exists. Running 3 squads allows you to concentrate them on one area of the board, and hit it hard.
But thats just how I use them.
Emperor have mercy on those who stand against me, for I shall not.
Originally Posted by rikimaru
Um, wow, you are hard to read.
I would probably not take 40 FW at the same time as the 12 stealths. In any case, complaining about stealth 18" range is a little silly. They move 12" a turn, and start out infiltrating. You don't wait for someone to get within range of them, you simply place them within range of the enemy. The whole reason I'm considering doing this is becasue my stealths seem always able to fire on a target every turn. They also seem to just last forever, as I'm pretty good at ducking 'em behind terain, and the night sight rules really help.
In regard to lost nemesis. I find they doesn't work as well in small games if the board is smaller, because they depend on having space to run.