Eldar troop discussion thread - Warhammer 40K Fantasy

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  1. #1
    LO Zealot Sareld's Avatar
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    Eldar troop discussion thread

    Ok, I am sick and tired of my troops never doing ANYTHING for me at all. It just seems that every single point I spend on troops is wasted, and I am so close to go go down the 2x5 guardian road and spend as many points as possible on something else. But I am not that unreasonable.. I want to keep my army fluffier than that, but on the other hand I also want to win battles. Let me tell you about my trouble troop for troop:

    Guardian Defenders: T3 and 5+ save = these guys drop like flies, and it hurts my fluff-loving heart to field troops like that. Every eldar life is prescious. Game wise, these guys dont really cut it either. Due to the short range of the suricat, they usually have to spend the first 3-4 turns marching across the table, taking fire all the way, and when they finally arrive and fire their guns once, before they are rapid fired to death. I have never in my life seen a guardian squad, even with conceal, take a round of rapid fireing and still remain battleworthy. And those severly overpriced weapon platforms are not really worth their points eother, unless you are very lucky.

    Storm Guardians: The same points apply here. They simply never live long enough to do a god damn thing, which is especially bad for cc troops. Unless something infiltrates or deep strikes right in front of them, they will simply be too few to make a diffrence in cc, and the sheer number of guardians needed in a squad like this makes it impossible to hide it behind anything, and they will be gunned down.

    Black Guardians: The same. + 1 WS or BS does not make the squad survive longer, although the weapon platforms are close to be worth their points in these squads.

    Dire Avengers: I like the idea of super guardians, but their short range and few numbers make these guys even more useless than guardians. Plus, they are very expensive for what they do.

    Rangers: Only really good in Alaitoc, where disruption takes care of the enemy bulk. Non-alaitoc armies based on rangers always semms to become outnumbered and slaughered.

    Please tell me that I miss the big picture here, and show me trhe light, or is it really true that the eldar havent got a single fieldworthy troop choice?


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  3. #2
    Advocatus Diaboli Rork's Avatar
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    You've got it wrong, at least on the defender front.

    If you want guardians to live, you have to invest in them. Your basic guardian is going to get chewed up by bolters, and pretty much every basic weapon (including the lasgun).

    Step #1: Conceal. Invaluable power. This keeps heavy bolters and even artillery "honest" with your troops - they aren't guaranteed anything even when you are in the open. It's expensive, but now you have a third fewer casualties.

    Step #1: Fortune. Yes, that's right - get the farseers in on the act. Although I use Ulthwé, having fortune on concealed guardians can completely wreck a firepower-based army.

    These two combined turn a weak, lightly armoured unit into a tough objective holding unit that isn't the "bullet catcher" that they are portrayed as. Only last night my guardians took 13 hits from a basilisk, resulting in 9 wounds.

    It killed two guardians.

    That brings me on to storm guardians. These boys suffer on a number of fronts - they don't have the armour, WS or S to make a good assault unit. Attack space marines and you will lose. Put them on foot and they will die. Even enhance is "dead money".

    I think if people really want to use them, use them to hunt tanks on the cheap. Small units in a wave serpent/falcon with fusion guns and a singing spear provide punch for very little outlay. It's also a nuisance unit that doesn't give your opponent much if they die.

    I don't like storm guardians, but they have a place if you need them.

    Rangers also have their uses - infiltrators are useful for taking ground before the game starts, and sniper rifles should never be sniffed at, especially in the face of wraithlords, talos or even C'Tan. The odd AP1 shot can be useful for forcing a pinning test your opponent might not otherwise have to take. I usually take two medium sized squads.
    Last edited by Rork; August 23rd, 2005 at 22:55.


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  4. #3
    Senior Member TzarNikolai's Avatar
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    yeah, i never saw the benefit of guardians (and my friend already played ulthwe so i wasn't about to copy)
    i can't really afford to spare the points to conceal a guardian squad then fortune it, my HQ slots usually only have the one unit, which is my jetbike farseer. and a BS 3 starcannon or brightlance doesn't really appeal when i could just use a vyper to acheive the same end.

    i kinda sidestep the whole issue of having to use guadians by paying biel-tan, aspects as troops are great but they can get pretty expensive. the problem is i find them earning their points back less and less. dark reapers are pretty weak and are usually the very first target, i have no idea how to use fire dragons effectively without devoting half my army as "support".
    even banshees; they look good on paper but how are you supposed to get them into cc? waveserpents just don't work anymore.

    two of my troop slots that consistently bring their points back are infiltrating scorpions and warp spiders.
    if you're ever going to go with biel-tan may i suggest a squad of each for troops and ignoring the other aspects (more in big games though)

    although i never use guardians i still can't bring myself to ever try them and push the eldar that little bit closer to extinction...

  5. #4
    Favored of Tzeentch Viktor's Avatar
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    I'll write more tomorrow when i have the time, but for now i will comment on the Storm Guardian thing. The trick when using them is to charge the enemy with a close combat specialist squad, like Banshees, and use the Storm Guardians to outnumber the enemy (and maybe kill something) so they'll lose their morale check and get slaughtered. I think that conceal is the best warlock power for Storm Guardians too, except when playing Ulthwé Strike Force.
    Warhammer Fantasy: Warriors of Chaos, High Elves
    Warhammer 40k: Eldar, Space Marines, Orks

  6. #5
    Member artificer knoll's Avatar
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    go mechanized. your guardians get there and thusly you can make a fight out of it.

  7. #6
    LO Zealot Sareld's Avatar
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    I am aware that fortue can make guardians live longer, and that I can use serpents or falcons to transport them, the only trouble about that is that guardians are simply not worth it. Conceal + forutne is very expensive, and transports even more so, and on top op that, transports limit the maximum size of the guardian squads to a size, where badly equipped warriors like guardians cant do much. Its not that I cant make guardians survive, its just that I simply cant find any efficient use for my troops, and utterly waste the about 400 points that I usually spend on them. But it appears that Im not the only one having trouble with my troops at least. The only reason why I dont go beil-tan is, that I dont want to spend more money on my eldar before the new dex is out.. whenever that is going to be.

  8. #7
    Member artificer knoll's Avatar
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    yeah my last 2 games have been 1000pt battles with my IG vs guardian heavy eldar, and by turn 4 they were wiped out both times. it was pretty one sided on both occasions

    my only recommendation is load up in wave serpents with storm guardians and roll out. popping out and unloading with 2 flamer templates can be a nasty suprise and now you're within assault range as well, so hey, it may have cost you 135pts to get the squad there, but its there and you have a twin linked starcannon to mess with the enemy with while your guardians are in combat.

    I know it's expensive but you're needing to invest some points to make guardians worthwhile. as you stated them, they indeed do suck

  9. #8
    LO Zealot Kirasu's Avatar
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    98pt starcannons are what Guardians are for.. I use 3 squads in my Biel Tan army due to the transport changes. You *need* numbers to stay competative and sadly Guardians can be quite useful

    I never ever use them fo ranything other than starcannon platforms and as a cheap scoring unit that might be ignored.. The other troop choices are generally useless

  10. #9
    Advocatus Diaboli Rork's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by Farseer Sareld
    Conceal + forutne is very expensive
    But worth it. It's a good points denial tactic, and great at reducing the number of morale checks you might have to take.

    I win a lot of games using that combo, and at tournaments it usually scores highly (my 1k version has got two massacres and a minor victory two years in a row, resulting in a 2nd and 5th place, my 1.5k is also just as effective).

    I've been using guardians with conceal/fortune for about 3 years now, and the combo is well-worth trying. You can either stand off with the squad heavy weapon against marine armies, or go in close firing the heavy weapon until you get into catapult range. If you are flexible with your tactics guardians are a great unit.


    Having an army and not owning a rulebook is like owning a car with no steering wheel.

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  11. #10
    Favored of Tzeentch Viktor's Avatar
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    Now let's talk a little about Rangers.

    I find them useful from time to time because of the stealth rule and Ranger long rifles, a lot more effective than normal Sniper rifles. But most of the time i just use them because i want more different troop choices than just Guardians. They're good at staying alive at least, with a 3+ cover save in ruins... and they can in theory take down big creatures as well as pin small units. And they're extra useful in Cleanse missions for starting in an adjacent table quarter in the beginning of the game.

    On to Dire Avengers:

    This squad has never really served me well, they're like black guardians without a warlock when shooting and like howling banshees when shot at. They are like Fire Dragons in close combat... they have their fans and some people find uses for them, but i'm not one of them. I might repaint mine and use them when the new codex comes out though, i have high hopes for them.

    Guardian Defenders:

    They generally have 3 kinds of configurations:
    1. Big 20-man squad with concealing warlock, great for adding a bulk to the army and maybe kill something.
    2. Small squad with a heavy weapon, usually Star Cannons for non-ulthwé armies.
    3. 10-man squad with concealing warlock, a unit mostly used in Ulthwé strike force for killing light infantry when emerging from the webway. Here they excel against the right opponent.

    So yes, i do find Guardians useful and really cool.

    Storm Guardians:

    As i stated earlier, they are good for adding numbers to an assault. When using them as Black guardians and giving them Enhance, they are very capable assault units. Don't forget that they can fleer of foot! Most useful in Ulthwé strike force of course, since they don't have to march across the table and die.
    Another use is buying 5 of them and giving two of them flamers, putting them in a Falcon and unloading death on a squad. If you kill stuff worth 46 pts or more you've eared back their points already! It gives you a little road bump too.

    Summary: I like all the Eldar troop choices except Dire Avengers. I still bear the shame of when my Exarch got beaten by a Catachan sniper in close combat.
    Warhammer Fantasy: Warriors of Chaos, High Elves
    Warhammer 40k: Eldar, Space Marines, Orks

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