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*NEW* Player seeking intro advice...

893 views 10 replies 7 participants last post by  chauvin01 
#1 · (Edited)
Greetings to all fellow Tau commanders.

Shas'O Zah'Kre Shau'vin reporting in (That's Zachary Chauvin, in common English).

As I am new to not only the Tau forces, but also 40k 4ed., I have a few questions as I set forth on the long path to the Greater Good.

By way of introduction, I played 40k long, long ago, before the days of Tau, Necrons, Dark Eldar, Daemon Hunters, Adeptus Soriritas, et al. I think the last game I played before selling everything I owned was about 6 months before the Necrons were introduced. Therefore, I find myself with a great deal of catching up to do.

I have spent some measure of time reading the new rulebook, and, while many concepts therein are still foreign to me (for example, I don't know how you guys can live without Overwatch rules!), I think I'd be interested in picking up the dice once in a while for friendly play.

That said, about 6 months ago, I headed down to the local hobby shop and snagged a Tau Battle Force and Codex (what can I say, the models appealed to me :D ) I'm going to try to play a few small point games (probably 500 pts) with one of the local 'experts' to learn the new rules.

I write in order to pose a few questions about Tau tactica because, even though I am still learning, being able to, at least, put up a somewhat competitive fight will probably keep me more interested than getting trounced in game after game after game, ad nauseum.

I currently own the basic Tau Battleforce (3 XV8s, 12 FWs, 12 Kroot, 10 Gun Drones), and have about $250 to expand the force. Bearing these facts in mind, my questions are as follows:

I was thinking that 'Accuracy by Volume' would be the superior tactic in a 500 pt. game, insofar as my opponent, knowing that I am playing a Tau force, is highly likely to field numerous HtH units, or at least some swarms of cheap units to overwhelm me by numbers. Is this a decent assumption, or should I avoid tailoring my list like this? If this presumption stands, I was considering fielding:

Shas'El (TL Plasma, Fusion, HW Multi)
12 FW (With Shas'Ui)
11 FW (With Shas'Ui)
5 XV15's

However, I know that tooling a list (especially given the fact that I'm a total noob) is seen as 'cheesy' by most people, and I don't want to offend anybody. Any critiques are welcome.

My second inquiry is in regards to the possibility of fielding something a bit heavier. If the above proposition seems unreasonable in light of the response I get to this post, my fall-back list would read:

Shas'El (TL Plasma, Fusion, HW Multi)
12 FW (With Shas'Ui)
11 FW (With Shas'Ui)
IonHead (SMS, Decoy, Multi)

Any critique on the fall-back list is welcome, as well. Please note that, in the above list, I am a bit more 'married' to the idea of the Fusion Blaster on the Shas'El, as I have *nothing* else to rely on for armor popping. He wouldn't be tooled to deal with squads, as I would think that the FW could deal with (by volume of high-strength shots) most normal (tactical) squads, and the IonHead could concentrate it's fire on approaching CC threats. The Shas'El would serve not only as anti-armor, but also anti-Uber-CC-Leader-mayhem. Critiques are welcome.

Final series of question: Has anybody used (successfully) Kroot or Gun Drones in a 500 pt. game, or are they too narrowly suited to fit a game where every single point really must (by necessity) serve at least two functions. If that is, indeed, the case, would the Kroot not, in all honesty, at least be worth consideration for their counter-assault and shooting abilities?

I do hope I'm not too far off base in preparing these lists. I will draft some things up properly and submit these lists to the Army List forum, I just wanted to post an introduction here, and get some critiques of my thought processes before I drew up a list for submission.

-Shas'O Shau'Vin
 
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#2 ·
Hehe... well... the overwatch rules did make things a bit difficult in 2nd edition, especially for new players who weren't used to them.

As for the lists, i'm not a seasoned Tau veteran, but i'd suggest looking over other army lists to see what other people feild at that points value.

In choosing between the first list and the fall back list, consider what your opponent will be playing... Army with a majority of a 3+ save? ionhead would definately help out. Horde army? take the railhead (if you have the points) or the stealth suits.
 
#3 · (Edited)
Thanks...

Thanks for your response.

In addendum to the above, I just thought of a different approach that I think may be superior. Given that these games will be my 'training' and introduction to the new rules, might it not be favorable for me to try different units in each game, with the focus of each game (or series thereof) to be, primarily, to gain some measure of skill with the use of various Tau units.

I.E.:

A series of games wherein I focus on learning to effectively deploy various XV8 configurations;
A series of games wherein I focus on learning to effectively deploy footslogging Fire Warriors;
A series of games wherein I focus on learning to effectively deploy mobile Fire Warriors;

et seq.

Anybody have success with this approach to compartmentalized training, or will I find myself far behind the power curve if I try to learn to use the various units in a vacuum, without the benefit of the other various units' synergies?

Thanks,
-Shas'O Shau'Vin
 
#4 ·
Well I don't play tau but I got my ass kicked by a tau vet.

Some things I learned:

Stealth suits hurt a helluvalot even against marines.

Devilfish fire warriors are very painful, they run around so fast and can disembark and immidiatly fire a punishing salvo of str 5 shots, not to mention the skimmer rules make taking the transport out a royal pain.

Crisis suits are not nessesscary to win expect for the commander (otherwise the list is illegal)

Railheads hurt :(

Kroot are mad effective when using their abilities and insane # of attacks to their advantage.
 
#5 ·
This is the BEST advice anyone can give you for setting up your army:

READ YOUR CODEX! Read it again. Sleep on it. Are you reading it now? Start reading!

And heres my adivice:
Get another box of Fire warriors. They are too good.
Gets a Stealth team. Another great option.
Get a hammerhead. Theres a good thead about it here: Hammerhead and Broadsides

About strategy, come back with some more specific questions or browse the threads. There is plenty of info here, and its to much trouble give a whole general strategy. Besides, there is that in your Codex. Are you reading it yet?

And Welcome to LO!
 
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#6 ·
Haha... I've been reading the Codex for months; I'm itching to play now. Problem is that Law School doesn't leave me as much free time as I'd like, and reading the Codex for the hundredth-odd time isn't nearly as productive as actual play (I find that the important information is hard to identify without actual experience).

As for the forums, I've been lurking for a while, and I've read many, many, many articles and posts here about Tau tactica. I guess what I'm asking for is if anybody can spot any holes in my thought processes that should be rectified at the outset, more than specific advice about how to construct a Tau force and how to play it (the answers to those questions will come later).

Thanks for the welcome,
-Shas'O Shau'Vin
 
#7 ·
Its good to hear you read your Codex. Its just that new people seem to ask questions that are in the Codex, and it becomes obvious that they havn't read.

About games... the GW store is probably the best place to get a game going. I dunno about your store, but mine takes the address and phone number of people to give out to some others, so that they arrange games and such that way.

Hope that helps.
 
#8 ·
kroot are pretty good :cool: so are gun drones :lol: i have used them at 500 pionts but i would lean towards kroot for when ever their is wood they rule. 4+ cover save what more could one want. a evil trick is to set them up 7" in to a pecie of wood and then they can shoot and only kroot or catcahans can shoot them. kroot are cheap and you could get al lot in 500's but their so much fun dont let the lack of armour save fool you they are good troops they can pretty much finsish off raptors in close combat in the open when their charged (done that too many time it not funny). gun drone do have their uses as their isnt a great Morale bonus at 500 pionts, so you can deal with most things and with their JSJ you can get a perfect KWOR (kill with out returns) MAX their numbers to get a kill each turn to cause a pining check this will work even on the SM. thought you do find the occational person who trys to get in to combat with normal infrantry and it was never going to work with drones the best thing you can do is sit and shoot if your an enemy. i alway have a rule that i should have at least 2 wepaon which can destroy AV 14 just in case the first one is indispoed of so i would lean toward another tank busting units i would say 8 HAs with emps should do it, but it depends on the armyies in you area.
 
#9 · (Edited)
Welcome to the Tau, Zachary!

I'll try my best to answer your queries.

In general, I'd recommend avoiding "tailoring" your list to the type of army you expect to see. In general, choosing lists that are slightly biased towards assaulty armies, and slightly biased towards T4, 3+ armor isn't a bad idea, since the majority of armies you'll face these days will fit into one (or both) of these two categories, but too much tailoring will just result in less-fun games for both people and less skill-development on your part.

Regarding your proposed 500 point list... are you planning on playing using the Combat Patrol rules? My advice will change depending on whether or not this is the case, but for now, I'll assume you're NOT using Combat Patrol rules since you didn't say anything about them. That being said, I'd strongly recommend you at least consider using them at this game size... Combat Patrol really eliminates some of the cheezy min-maxing you can get at this point level.

If you're not using Combat Patrol, you should expect to see anything. Terminators? Yup. Land Raider? Sure. Hive Tyrant? Why not... That being said, I think you need at least one Railgun, probably in the form of a Broadside to conserve points. Your choice of Shas'el looks good and is my personal favorite in fact... although I'm not sure you'll be encountering so many 2+ saves as to require such a specialized unit. I think a standard Fireknife Shas'el [Plasma, Missile Pod, Multitracker] should fill the anti-2+ save role AND help take care of light vehicles... and will save you a few points too.

I dislike Firewarriors. They're less point-efficient at shooting than Kroot, less durable than Kroot (since Kroot can be brought in larger squads), and have worse close combat stats. Assuming there's 4+ cover on the table for you to infiltrate them in (not a bad assumption at all), Kroot are superior to Firewarriors in every way. I'd recommend you bring your mandatory 1 Firewarrior Team, and then start spending points on Kroot if you feel the need for more footslogging shooters.

I also feel Gun Drones are an excellent buy in small games like this. The Tau Jet Pack ability really comes into it's own with so few models on the table. You've got so much room to maneuver and take advantage of your mobility. With some practice, there's really no reason they should ever be shot at. Furthermore, pinning is largely a non-issue in larger games because people bring things like Chapter Masters, Vox Casters, and numerous synapse creatures to give an across-the-board leadership boost to their entire army. In small games like this, these upgrades are frequently absent... making pinning a useful ability. And in a pinch, Gun Drones make a decent counter-assault unit with their I4.

Hopefully this gets you on the right track. Again, I'd recommend taking a look at the Combat Patrol rules and working with those while you get a feel for 4th ed.


In closing, if you're interested in more reading material, I'd recommend you check out this. It's an introduction to an alternative method of fighting with the Tau which some folks have found fun and effective. It's not for everyone though. However, if you like what you see, feel free to check out the full monty here.
 
#10 ·
Listen to the Tonka driving dude he speaks the good stuff.
I would take the Shas'el as stands but if you need the points replace the fusion with the MP option.
The advice about Kroot is spot on the shooting abilties of the Kroot are very much underestimated, they absolutely kisk ass when used in cover, take time to read the rules for Kroot and digest them, they are a very very good unit that dont shine at firs glance but reveal their usefullness with use and understanding of the nuances of the cover rules (check out the 40K rule book for LOS rules and jungle / woods rules)

The drone squad is also underated, for 2 points more than a basic FW you get twin linked shots that can pin and a jet pack move, they work amazingly well with the Shas'el they can keep up with him and they can aid his survivability by screening him, thus stopping him being targeted if he is not the closest unit (works really well).
I have seen players put drones in a circle around a Shas (funny but it works). Also because they are a seperate unit they can shoot any passengers that are disembarked if the transport is destroyed (very nice).

If you play combat patrol take the Stealths, they will excell at taking out infantry and can take out light armour.

If your playing standard games take a Railgun Hammerhead with Multi for 165 pts, it will be the single most usefull model in your list, and dont be put of by cries of cheese (its only cos they hate the STR10, AP1 and sSTR6 sub round).

If you take the Shas'El, 12 Warriors, a unit of Kroot (number depending on points spent on other parts of list) 8 Gun drones and a Railhead HH, you will have a quite fearsome list for 500pts and it would take some beating.
Good luck dude
 
#11 ·
T0nkaTruckDriver said:
In general, I'd recommend avoiding "tailoring" your list to the type of army you expect to see. In general, choosing lists that are slightly biased towards assaulty armies, and slightly biased towards T4, 3+ armor isn't a bad idea, since the majority of armies you'll face these days will fit into one (or both) of these two categories, but too much tailoring will just result in less-fun games for both people and less skill-development on your part.
I fully agree with all that you wrote; and for those reasons, I've decided to focus a bit less on list construction and a bit more on figuring out the units' synergies and effective uses through study and play, rather than trying to tailor a list from the word 'Go'.

T0nkaTruckDriver said:
I also feel Gun Drones are an excellent buy in small games like this. ... You've got so much room to maneuver and take advantage of your mobility. ... Furthermore, pinning is largely a non-issue in larger games because people bring things like Chapter Masters, Vox Casters, and numerous synapse creatures to give an across-the-board leadership boost to their entire army. In small games like this, these upgrades are frequently absent... making pinning a useful ability.
I hadn't quite reasoned through this line of thought before reading your comments. I will give drones some thought.

T0nkaTruckDriver said:
I'd recommend you check out this. It's an introduction to an alternative method of fighting with the Tau which some folks have found fun and effective. It's not for everyone though. However, if you like what you see, feel free to check out the full monty here.
Thanks for the links. I had read the Mech Tau Lite_v4.pdf quite some time ago, but I was never able to ferret out the Mech Tau Codex and forum that I've so often read about in LO posts.


Thanks to all for the great advice,
-Shas'O Shau'Vin
 
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