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  1. #1
    AKM
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    Veil of Darkness?

    Hi all,

    the following question may seem really dumb, but here it is:

    When you use the VoD, you redeploy the Lord and the unit he's attached to according to Deep Strike rules.

    What if the mission does not allow deep strike???

    Can the VoD be used?

    Is it considered an actual deep strike, since the models are not held in reserve but redeployed?

    I have looked in the codex, the addendum and the FAQ in excrutiating detail ,and have not seen anything about it.

    Given that so many missions do not allow for deep striking, I'd hate to waste 60pts in that case!

    I would tend to believe that the VoD can be used regardless of circumstances, but would appreciate if anyone could help me substantiate this claim.


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    The VoD can be used regardless of deep strike being allowed or not. It isn't a true deep strike, just teleporting using deep strike rules. As you say, it would be a pretty big waste of points if you couldn't use it in most missions.

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    But the thing is you have to put the squad/lord down first, you don't immediately deepstrike the unit and him.

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    Now that we are on this subject, can you assault after using VoD? I have read everything possible on it, but have not found a definitive answer. Reading the deepstrike rules however, doesnt give a clear answer either, and if you twist the words properly(as in the last paragraph) you can make it say that you can.

    Also, can you VoD on turn 1? Deepstrike says role for reserves, but you arent exactly roling for reserves when you VoD are you?
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    You can use the Veil on any movement phase in place of the Lord's movement. Once you decide to use the Veil, you then follow DS rules (scatter, proximity to enemy models). Since you can't make an assault move after DS, you can't make an assault move after Veiling either. (Aw, no more "reason for editing" field )
    Last edited by Gojiratoho; October 3rd, 2005 at 04:47. Reason: Wait, I found it.
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  7. #6
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    I don't agree with Necron players using the VOD in Alpha missions. Alpha Missions specifically disallow the Deep Strike rule and since the VOD specifically uses that for movement it would not be allowed.
    GW uses the term "Deep Strike" (notice the caps) to refer to a specific rule (the same as Tank, Fast, Bolter, etc...). If they didn't want to include both the benefits AND the detriments of the Deep Strike rules to the VOD then they would have stated the teleportation rules separately (as they have done with other army abilities). Because they reference the Deep Strike rule directly, and the VOD entry does not state it works when the Deep Strike rule is not in effect (like the Tyranid Lictor), then the VOD is a waste of points in an Alpha mission.

    I understand the argument about the unit not being held in reserve (which is referenced in the Deep Strike rules) and the VOD being movement, not Reserves. If you read the entry on Deep Strike it does count as their movement, the Reserves rule is referenced only for unit placement. In essence the unit is brought out of reserves using the Reserve rules and then teleported onto the board instead of their normal movement. Since the unit is already on the board they only use the Deep Strike movement rules, not the Reserves placement rules.

    Alpha missions are meant to severely limit the amount and capabilities of wargear and abilities. Only very specific abilities can override the mission roll and must be stated in their description. If this was not the case then why have Alpha missions at all?

    The argument about wasting the points for a VOD if you can't use it is completely unfounded. You could spend the points on the Infiltrate ability for your whole Chaos army only to have the Infiltrate rule disallowed by the mission roll. The mission roll adds some randomness to the start of the game that can cause either player (or both) to end up wasting points on abilities and/or wargear.

    BTW, I am a Necron player so don't go thinking I'm the enemy and just want to weaken my opponent. But I understand that when GW references a specific item like "Deep Strike", "Tank", or "Bolter" they mean a reference to the specific rules regarding that item, not a generic term. Since they reference "Deep Strike" and not simply "teleportation" they mean to link the VOD to the Deep Strike rules.

    This argument will not be decided until GW adds the entry to the FAQ as rules can be lawyered until you're blue in the face and it won't matter.
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  8. #7
    GAR
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    Can't use VOD in alpha missions. The rule, as stated by GW officials in memphis, is that if it uses deep strike type movement, it is not allowed. The only exception to this rule is terminators which are always allowed to deep strike regardless.

    FYI, this restriction also applies to 13th Company Rune Priest "gate" power. Only usable if deep strike rules are allowed.

    ie, no deep strike, no teleporting
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    Quote Originally Posted by GAR
    Can't use VOD in alpha missions. The rule, as stated by GW officials in memphis, is that if it uses deep strike type movement, it is not allowed. The only exception to this rule is terminators which are always allowed to deep strike regardless.

    FYI, this restriction also applies to 13th Company Rune Priest "gate" power. Only usable if deep strike rules are allowed.

    ie, no deep strike, no teleporting
    "GW officials in memphis" are very similar to the rules boys, I would think. They all sound very knowledgable and they all disagree.

    Also, since teleporting doesn't involve reserves and can be done voluntarily at any time, and doesn't involve entering the board, it isn't deepstrike type movemnet.
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    I think I am going to post the bits about the no assault after deep strike, and show you why they sould be able to because of the wording of the rules... later
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  11. #10
    GAR
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    I'n not talking about the rules boys, they could'nt agree on the color of an orange. These are members of the US staff and some of the guys from the UK design team that I had this particular question queried to. No deep strike means absolutley that, you cannot VOD, or gate or anything if Deep strike is not allowed by the level or sceario. this applies to the GT of which I have worked as an official and had to ask the "higher ups" cause I was'nt sure.

    VOD cannot be used in alpha level missions.
    GAR,
    THE BEATINGS SHALL CONTINUE UNTIL MORALE IMPROVES

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