How many points is everything actually worth? - Warhammer 40K Fantasy
 

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  1. #1
    LO Zealot TheWamp's Avatar
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    How many points is everything actually worth?

    Okay, like it says in the title. Also, I'd like to add that this IS NOT intended to be "what changes would you like to see". I'm just wondering if the points for everything were revamped would we see every unit, or are things self-contradictory enough that we'd have to update. I may try to get some of my friends to let me used the redone point costs in a few test games, to see what it's like, just to satisfy my curiousity

    These are my thoughts. What does everyone else think?

    Avatar- I'd put him at 70 for the bad save, but he still isn't really a very effective HQ choice due to the fact that lasguns can kill him.
    Farseer- I'd say leave him as is however...
    Witchblade- rediculously overpriced. Bring it down to 7 points, IMO. Without the ability to instakill or cut armor, it shouldn't be 15 points.
    Guide- why does this cost more than fortune? It should be 20 points.
    Eldritch Storm- this is rediculously pathetic. I think 10 points.
    Spirit stones- also overly pointed. Maybe 25 points?
    CTM- shouldn't be more than a holo-field. 25 points.
    Star engines- 5 points? maybe?
    warp spider exarch- really he doesn't do much for the squad. Maybe 6 points
    withdraw This shouldn't be more than 10 points, since it really isn't likely to come into effect.
    surprise assault- yes it's good, but not that good. 15 points. You're still foregoing shooting.
    powerblades- 10 points
    war shout- 20 points???? Everyone has Ld 9 or 10. It should be 5 points.
    fire dragons- they're so fragile. One volley, then they get charged and killed. 15 points.
    fire pike- Its points just aren't justified. 10 points.
    burning fist- With s3 and in a cc squad? 10 points
    tank hunter- this squad doesn't need any anti-tank help. This really isn't worth it as is. 10 points.
    wraithguard- So expensive and really not worth it. 25 points, and then they're worth it.
    Dire avengers- 10 points. Then i'd take them. As is, they're awful. As is, just take guardians
    Guardians (either variety) So easy to kill, and so much worse than DE warriors. 7 points.
    heavy weapons platforms A blanket 10 point drop should make these worthwhile. As is, just take a vyper.
    jetbikes- WAY too expensive. Would 25 points do it
    all auxillary shurikannon upgrades 15 points
    all starcannon upgrades +5 points. I hate to say it, but they really are to cheap.
    all EML upgrades -5 points. These really shouldn't be more than a starcannon, or a brightlance.
    shining spears would 30 points work?
    exarch- 10 points. Just to make him worthwhile.
    Brightlance- given that you lose S, I'd say 10 points
    swooping hawks- a tad too expensive. 18 points.
    wave serpent- 95 points+ upgrades. Then, would people stop complaining? or is this too cheap?
    fire prism- terrible... 75 points?
    wraithlord- alright, he is just a bit too good. 95 points+ weapon
    warwalker- all weapons minus 10 points.
    vibro cannon- certainly not better than a D-cannon. 30 points
    shadow weaver- awful. 15 points.
    Dark reapers- a tad too fragile for their points. 32 points.

    How does this look? Jeez that was long winded. Also, non-eldar players who read the eldar forum, anything that is too good that I missed out?

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  3. #2
    Senior Member designer891's Avatar
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    Well I think points aren't the problem, the problem is 50% of our units just suck and just need to be revised.

    But this is about the current list with the current points and I think you are right on the money Wamp.

    I think the avatar is worth 80 points though, If u can get him in the right situtations I think he is easily worth 80pts. Of course I would rather see GW just fix him all together, or give us a fighter/hero...but that's another story.

    I can't wait until they do something with the wraithguard, at 35pts they are way too expensive, I think they are cool models too, just need new poses and possibly a different weapons if they keep the cost 35pts. But at 25pts I would taking them 90% of the time.

    Good job Wamp I think these are very fair prices and make much more sense. All though I would like to see what non-eldar players think of it.

  4. #3
    Member Novelizer's Avatar
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    Looks like all is fair to me. Yea, you guys need a non-psycic hero other than the avatar.
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  5. #4
    LO Zealot TheWamp's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by designer891
    Well I think points aren't the problem, the problem is 50% of our units just suck and just need to be revised.
    Well sure, but there are about a dozen other threads that are about the new codex and what it should include, so I figured variety couldn't hurt.

    Do you think 30 points could work better for wraithguard then?
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  6. #5
    Favored of Tzeentch Viktor's Avatar
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    I can't help it but feel like you want everything just to be better TheWamp, even though i agree with a lot of those points, we just need a re-vamp and we'll get it sooner or later. Until then it won't help doing this, we'll still not change anything. I've started to feel these kinds of threads are pointless, we should discuss what to do with the possibilities we already have in our codex instead.

    No offense though, i understand your feelings all too well.
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  7. #6
    LO Zealot TheWamp's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by Viktor
    I can't help it but feel like you want everything just to be better TheWamp, even though i agree with a lot of those points, we just need a re-vamp and we'll get it sooner or later. Until then it won't help doing this, we'll still not change anything. I've started to feel these kinds of threads are pointless, we should discuss what to do with the possibilities we already have in our codex instead.

    No offense though, i understand your feelings all too well.
    It's more of a curiosity issue: Are the units unplayable or are they just pointed too high. Some like the Avatar are actually fairly unplayable. However, others like wraithguard are just pointed to high.

    But I suppose you're right. I'm just wishing for that new codex. Oh, and BT will be out soon, so one more down... 3??? to go. (ork, SMurf chapter, eldar, with Tau stuck in between 2 of them).

    Hurry up GW!!!
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  8. #7
    Favored of Tzeentch Viktor's Avatar
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    Out of curiosity? By inclining new points costs you are actually suggesting changes... there is no escape from the "new codex"-maelstream...

    I have great ways to use the Avatar in Ulthwé, but he's no good in any other craftworld. He does indeed need a big change...
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  9. #8
    Advocatus Diaboli Rork's Avatar
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    I just want to address a few I disagree with.
    Quote Originally Posted by TheWamp
    Witchblade- rediculously overpriced. Bring it down to 7 points, IMO. Without the ability to instakill or cut armor, it shouldn't be 15 points.
    But is better than most power fists against vehicles. I like its reliability.
    Quote Originally Posted by TheWamp
    Guide- why does this cost more than fortune? It should be 20 points.
    Probably because it can be cast on some ridiculously shooty units. Fortune is only of any use if the unit is actually shot at.
    Quote Originally Posted by TheWamp
    CTM- shouldn't be more than a holo-field. 25 points.
    It's the difference between being shot and not. That's worth a lot.
    Quote Originally Posted by TheWamp
    surprise assault- yes it's good, but not that good. 15 points. You're still foregoing shooting.
    A lot of the exarch powers and the roles of their squads need to be rejigged. Why do the shooty aspects (fire dragons, swooping hawks) have combat oriented powers? Fixing the poor choices in the Eldar army isn't just about points cost. Many units have confused roles or something that just lets them down (BS3 on a fire prism). Some units are good but too expensive - wraithguard, wave serpents; while others just don't work - storm guardians, fire prism.


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  10. #9
    Senior Member designer891's Avatar
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    Originally Posted by TheWamp
    Do you think 30 points could work better for wraithguard then?
    I think 25-30pts is fair for wraithguard. But I like 25 better

    Originally Posted by TheWamp
    But I suppose you're right. I'm just wishing for that new codex. Oh, and BT will be out soon, so one more down... 3??? to go. (ork, SMurf chapter, eldar, with Tau stuck in between 2 of them).

    I thought it was Orks, then Eldar get a new codex? (Of course I am just going be which is older)

    Sorry to bring up the codex issue again but thats what this is pretty much all about : Eldar needing some revisions.

    It would be awesome if GW could just release a simple points revision list or something kinda more simple then a new codex so we wouldn't be so fustrated.
    Last edited by designer891; October 6th, 2005 at 19:49.

  11. #10
    Favored of Tzeentch Viktor's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by Rork
    Some units are good but too expensive - wraithguard, wave serpents; while others just don't work - storm guardians, fire prism.
    Storm Guardians are great! At least if you play Ulthwé Strike Force...:shifty: there they are really mean, i pay about 136 pts for a big kick-ass CC squad. But then, i only know about 4 people on this forum who plays USF.
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