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Basically, ran through some math versus SMurfs:
Twin-Linked Devourer Warrior 29
(Base +14, Carapace +3, Enhanced Senses +2, 2 x Devourer +10)
Compare 4 TL Devourer Warriors (116) to the standard 8 Marine Tactical Squad (120). Both have 8 wounds, and cost roughly the same amount.
Attacks * Hit% * Wound% * Armor
16 (4 'Nids, 2 attacks, 2x assault) * 3/4 (rerollable bs3) * 5/9 (rerollable s3) * 1/3
16 * 3/4 * 5/9 * 1/3 = 2.222 wounds
Points inflicted: 2.222 * 15 = 33.33 points per salvo
8 * 2/3 * 1/2 * 1/2 = 1.333 wounds
Points inflicted: 1.333 * 29/2 = 19.33 points per salvo
That's quite powerful. Now, bolters have longer range by 6 inches and have rapid fire.
Rapid fire is a wash as if they approach your forces they are failing right into the trap (either you have some CC 'nids, or you simply charge them next turn w/ the brood and get extra attacks; not to mention there is nothing to say you can't take 2 warriors in a brood of 6 that having rending claw + devourer instead of 2 devourers...which will handily win you CC).
Extra 6 inch range? That's good, but not enough to make up for the significant difference in firepower once your devourer warriors get into range. Also countering this is that once you are in range and begin a shootout is the fact that you only lose firepower every 2 wounds, whereas every 1 wound dealt to 'rines reduces thier capability to dish it out.
I've been contemplating running 3 TL Devourer Warriors (3 x 29) + Rending Devourer Warrior (30) (for a grand total of 117 points) which still handily deals out 2.03 wounds to 'rines, and can carry the day with a charge since you get 3 rending attacks.
And of course if you don't need rending, you can always throw in cheap bio-plasma for all your warriors for an extra attacks.
Makes the Devourer Warrior Broods very verstile (Render or bioplasma for CC) although they lack to the ability to damage vehicles at range (that's what your tyrant, 'fex, renders, and other warrior broods are for right?)
Last edited by six; October 11th, 2005 at 02:12.
Keep in mind that in almost all cases the marines will get the first salvo.Furthermore they won't only come with bolters, but also with the casual heavy one or krak missile.
Seven marines with six bolters and one heavy bolter will cause 6*2/3
*1/2*1/2= 1 wound from the bolters plus 1.333 wounds from the HB, for 2.33 wounds - 33.83 points of warriors dead, albeit against seven marine wounds. Even with 5+ cover for the warriors that's still 27.39pts, not taking into account the additional round of shooting of the marines, and the potential additional plasma gun.
It's about fair for a firefight if one doesn't take into account the range issue, but once that is considered the balance tips in favour of the marines, i think.
Good points Archon.
Seems like the TL devourer warrior would still be good fire support as it would pose a threat just before your CC nids get into charge range, and make the opponent hopefully split fire.
Not to mention, an average roll (assuming you get one brood of measly 4 into range) against your aforementioned 7 rines w/ heavy bolter (which undoubtedly have hurt something, just hopefully you have redundant fire support systems) will take 6.666 wounds before armor saves which is only .333 short of taking 7 wounds before armor saves...
Meaning, nearly on each average roll you will inflict 7 wounds and can force his heavy weapons man to make the save first.
And after you are in range, you WILL inflict casualties (as will he) and nearly every round of equal shooting you can force his heavy bolter to take a save because his other men will be dying.
I agree 'rines tac squads can outshoot devourer warriors, but I don't think it's a lost cause as if he ignores just a little squad of 4 they can almost pick out individual heavy weapons guys among them in thier salvo, which has to obviously be good.
Not to mention presumably it makes the whether to shoot the MC or CC horma/genestealers (and now the warriors) angst that much more apparent.
Of course, there is always that chance to cause that torrent of fire check. By going into that level of detail the range difference has to be considered too though.
Tyranids get the first turn, advance. The warriors are out of range.
The marines then kill approximately one warrior (a bit more without cover, a bit less with cover). Next turn the three remaining warriors cause five wounds in average. The odds to cause seven are rather low then.
So, let's keep things a bit in favour of the warriors and assume that two marines die (Ld check!). They'll most likely kill another warrior then.
The two warriors then will cause 3.33 pre-save wounds in average, killing another marine.
After both sides had two shooting phases there are half of the warriors standing, but four out of seven marines, and these still hold about 80% of the original firepower - and they will get the next shot.
Furthermore, this also assumes that the tyranids got the first turn - otherwise the marines get another round of shooting before the warriors do anything.
I'm not saying dual dev warriors aren't good - one just has to concentrate a good number of them against a few marines, then they can be quite effective.
You know, I think the balance of this comparison actually tips further in favor of the Warriors if the Marine unit includes a missile launcher. Think about it: Marines fire first at ~24", with the ML firing too. Nids advance and fire second at around 18", but pour in many more shots with the assault devourers. Now the Marines either 1) hold position and fire or 2) advance to within 12" and fire on the move. In case 1, they only fire once each. In case 2, they set themselves up for rapid fire, but the ML does not fire. Meanwhile, the Warriors crank out 4 shots each, standing or moving. *Even while moving backwards to stay in the 12"-18" golden zone.* The missile launcher limits the marine mobility while driving up the average per model cost of that unit.
If you take dual dev Warriors, then I highly suggest putting wings on them that way you get to choose when and where to shoot at the enemy.... if you play your cards right. 18" just isn't all that far so it's best to give them some added mobility in order to get the first shots and then maybe charge in for some extra attacks.
If you plan to do dev warriors, I suggest you add toxin sacs. Otherwise, dev armed gaunts with toxin sacs will do the job for less points.
Twin-Linked Devourer Warrior
2 x Devourer
total : 38
Thats a little bit pricy, but its really effective
And I like the idea of flying devourer armed Warriors. But that would cost a LOT of points.
43 without toxins sacs
52 with toxin sacs
Last edited by Pinkguy; October 19th, 2005 at 23:53.
guinea pigs are cutes
everybody loves guinea pigs ... right?