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Thread: Necron wishlist

  1. #1
    Senior Member tiaxrulesall's Avatar
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    Necron wishlist

    -in my opinion the only things in the necrons that drastically need change are warsythes, pariahs, wraiths, and flayed ones. therefore i have come up with a few minor changes that i would like to be implimented. not to suggest that we need a new codex at all badly, but if one were to come out, here's what i think should change in it.

    1. the warsythe is currently not a viable choice for a lord as it removes a very powerfull shooting attack, is extra points, and the SOL already is a power weapon. however warsythes are a very cool fluff point. my suggestion would be to have it give an extra attack, and model it like the pariah, so it has a blade on the other end, this would definatly make it good, and not to powerfull, i don't think.

    2.pariahs are ridiculously not worth their points not only becaue of how incredibly vulnerable to heavy weapons fire they are, but because they don't have enough attacks to actually sufice as a couter charge unit. to fix both of these i would say to give them a 5+ invulnerable save, and have them benifit from the same +1A that i would give the lords warsythe. also, their rules, don't match their fluff, they are supposed to be psychic voids, but in game they can still be affected by psychic powers, i would give them, and culexus assasins the ability that phsychic powers cannot be targeted to, or used with 6" of a pariah/assasin.

    3.wraiths are not worth their points, they are as much as a terminator, for a model that is much easier to kill, and cannot kill as much. in a direct comparison to 10 scarabs, 3 wraiths are as may points, and worse at almost everything. To fix this i would propose that wraiths be given a 3-5 squad sise, so they could be put in numbers sufficient to do something, and also given weapons equivalent to chappas or chainaxes.

    4. flayed ones need something, they are warriors without the awesome gun which is the point of their existence, and with initiative that isn't better than anybody else's, and a special ability that never works. i would give them a squad sise of 5-15 to allow you to take enough of them to survive a fe shooting phases and actually get to CC.

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    Some very good points there- these are my thoughts on the above-

    1. Absolutely. An extra attack, although probably making the warscythe a bit more expensive- maybe 15-20 pts?- would really draw in the point of a CC tooled Lord.

    2. Pariahs are hugely worried about as CC monsters, but they actually can't do much with the stupidly low initiative and only 1 attack, which I think goes against the fluff. They need an extra attack, and possibly some more initiative, as they are meant to be more human, and following the Deceiver. Also to make them worth the immense pointage.

    3. I think that giving wraiths rending to simulate the phasing during combat, and again increase the unit size. Currently they are only viable if you take at least 2 full squads- If you could have 1-5 in a unit I think that would be best. They definitely need some sort of special weaponry rather than just bog standard. Power weapon would be too good, but Heavy CC or rending would work well with the fluff and the points cost.

    4. I think flayed ones are pretty good for what they are at the moment, but they could probably do with a higher Initiative- maybe just 5, to be above the bog standard. They could also have 'secret deployment' like lictors rather than deepstrike.
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    Senior Member Arandmoor's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by tiaxrulesall
    1. the warsythe is currently not a viable choice for a lord as it removes a very powerfull shooting attack, is extra points, and the SOL already is a power weapon.
    Okay, I'm going to flat-out-tell you that you're wrong here. The necron warscythe is, rightly so, one of the most feared CC weapons in the game. Only a true force weapon even begins to generate the ammount of apprehension a warscythe does in an opponent who know what it can do. Its ability to negate invuln saves is a very powerful ability when used correctly and has seen many of my Necrons' enemies to the grave far easier than almost seemed fair (DE Archon with a shadow field in CC with my destroyer lord comes to mind...as do several combats against marine chaplins)

    2.pariahs are ridiculously not worth their points not only becaue of how incredibly vulnerable to heavy weapons fire they are, but because they don't have enough attacks to actually sufice as a couter charge unit. to fix both of these i would say to give them a 5+ invulnerable save, and have them benifit from the same +1A that i would give the lords warsythe. also, their rules, don't match their fluff, they are supposed to be psychic voids, but in game they can still be affected by psychic powers, i would give them, and culexus assasins the ability that phsychic powers cannot be targeted to, or used with 6" of a pariah/assasin.
    Okay, here I agree with the sentiment but not with the fix. Pariahs, in every way, theoretically deserve their price tags. The problem is that the reality doesn't match the theory. The second problem is that if we just blindly stack on statline improvements we're going to get yet another extremely expensive unit that can't survive. The third problem is that a 5+ invuln save and "immunity" to psychic powers doesn't solve the pariahs' primary problems: their vulnerability to heavy weapons and the fact that they footslog everywhere.

    What we would get is an effective 5+ save model (after the heavy weapons punch their 3+ armor save) that costs 50 points and still doesn't actually do anything becasue everybody fears it and blows it off the table. On top of all that it still wouldn't contribute to phase out.

    IMO the present incarnation of the pariah needs to be completely scrapped (sorry to those who have nicely painted squads) and the idea of the pariah needs to be re-worked from the ground-up. My personal favrite revamp concept is an alternate HQ unit. Allows them to kick some butt, accurately reflect the cost, and not be list-breaking. Sure they might cost 80-125 points each, but you only get like one...and he's not only going to have the uber weapons, but multiple wounds, attacks and IC status to boot.

    3.wraiths are not worth their points, they are as much as a terminator, for a model that is much easier to kill, and cannot kill as much. in a direct comparison to 10 scarabs, 3 wraiths are as may points, and worse at almost everything. To fix this i would propose that wraiths be given a 3-5 squad sise, so they could be put in numbers sufficient to do something, and also given weapons equivalent to chappas or chainaxes.
    Okay, the moment I see the line "wraiths are not worth their points" I stop reading because I know for a fact that it is not true. They take some skill to get working right, and you have to be willing to lose them when your opponent really wants them off the table, but they win games the rest of the time (and even some times when the opponent targets them. Just depends how blind he is).

    Do I think they could use some improvements? Actually, no. I think they're fine. The only thing about wraiths that bugs me is the fourty-first point in their cost. having them only cost a flat fourty would make life soooooooo much easier.

    4. flayed ones need something, they are warriors without the awesome gun which is the point of their existence, and with initiative that isn't better than anybody else's, and a special ability that never works. i would give them a squad sise of 5-15 to allow you to take enough of them to survive a fe shooting phases and actually get to CC.
    I agree in part. Flayed ones need work.

    IMO simply raising the squad cap won't do anything except make you lose more necrons when the squad gets swept. What they need is a point boost. They need to be on par with immortals if they're going to be elites instead of this half-baked troop-wannabe. As they are they belong in the troops section of the list. Not the elites. I say raise their point cost to 24 points a model and give them more stuff (first, fix horrifying visage so that it actually does something every once in a while, and then give them one more thing. Don't know what exactly, but something...)
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    Junior Member Scryer's Avatar
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    Aran, I like what you're saying, but for their points, I wouldn't mind the wraiths being armor munching CC specialists (either rending or power weaponish), especially seeing as fluff-wise they can pass through anything. And yes, that 1 extra point is a bother

    As for Flayed Ones, if their price was raised, I wouldn't mind some kind of improvement that let them move and/or assault after a deepstrike... Otherwise, any small squad usually gets STS on the enemy turn after they burrow outta the ground. Either that, or any nearby squads start running away and kiting them (That is, of course, if Infiltrate isn't allowed or just wouldn't be to your advantage). Another nice thing would be a ranged fear-based effect of some kind.

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    Senior Member Arandmoor's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by Scryer
    Aran, I like what you're saying, but for their points, I wouldn't mind the wraiths being armor munching CC specialists (either rending or power weaponish), especially seeing as fluff-wise they can pass through anything. And yes, that 1 extra point is a bother
    Oh...please god no. No rending. If I wanted rending I would play chaos or nids.

    Honestly...I think they munch most armor just fine. Their str 6 and generous attacks allow them to force enough saves on 3+ troops that they'll fail some, and the things these guys do to 4+ and 5+ save armies isn't nice.

    ...the term "blender" comes to mind.

    I actually use 6 wraiths in my armies. They accompany a D Lord packing a warscythe, phase shifter, and rez orb and they eat stuff. Usually I use them to kill line troops a unit at a time. Your average marine tactical squad (full ten men) against the seven of them will usually last about a turn and a half. Then they die (unless I botch my rolls...). And if god hates me that particular day...well it's why I bring a monolith to back them up.

    The squads allow me to chose where to fight and do some real nifty things (last game was against IG and I blocked LOS to my warrior squads for his Lemun Russ (I blew up the other one) by assaulting two of his infantry squads in cover. I actually had to purposly limit the number of attacks I took on the assault in order to 1) allow some of the guardsmen to live long enough to help me block LOS and 2) not get cought in the open on my opponent's turn.

    So far as being CC specialists, IMO, wraiths are fine.

    As for Flayed Ones, if their price was raised, I wouldn't mind some kind of improvement that let them move and/or assault after a deepstrike... Otherwise, any small squad usually gets STS on the enemy turn after they burrow outta the ground. Either that, or any nearby squads start running away and kiting them (That is, of course, if Infiltrate isn't allowed or just wouldn't be to your advantage). Another nice thing would be a ranged fear-based effect of some kind.
    I'd like to see them get something along the same lines as what lictors get. They're suposed to be ambush troops. Presently all they do is fight half-deciently (the bottom half) in CC with anything lacking a 3+ save and the ability to negate their WBBs...when they can reach them. With their Horrifying Visage ability as gimped as it is, they're not worth 18 points a model. Right now they're really about on par with an ork slugga boy, and personally I'd give the advantage to the sluggas for both power and efficiency. Hell...you could presently give flayed ones disruption fields for free and I don't think it would be enough. They need their horrifying visage ability to actually work every once in a while when it might do something. Presently...it never actually works (I couldn't even get it to work against gaunts outside synapse...damn those dice...)
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    I'd like to see the choppa' effect added to the wraiths. That would make them a lot more useful, without making them too good.. Maybe up the points to 45 or so. Also, being able to take more than 3 in a squad would be nice. Even one more would be great.

    As for the flayed ones, I'd like to see their 'terrifying visage' exchanged for the equivalent of the 'gaze of flame' wargear. That would really make a difference. (maybe need to up them a point or two for that..). Also, 'fleet of feet' would be nice..

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    Senior Member Evil von Doomstein's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by tolvmannen
    I'd like to see the choppa' effect added to the wraiths. That would make them a lot more useful, without making them too good.. Maybe up the points to 45 or so. Also, being able to take more than 3 in a squad would be nice. Even one more would be great.

    As for the flayed ones, I'd like to see their 'terrifying visage' exchanged for the equivalent of the 'gaze of flame' wargear. That would really make a difference. (maybe need to up them a point or two for that..). Also, 'fleet of feet' would be nice..
    I agree on all counts. Wraiths should have SOMETHING special about their attacks. they can pass through stuff! And i woul definately like to see FO's get a liitle better. I like the Gaze of Flame idea.

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    With a 3+ inv. saves, WBB rolls, pass through any terrain untouched, high strength, I think wraiths are worth their points. Just because they are not the greatest MEQ killers does not mean that they suck. I do agree that they should be able to come in a squad of five, three is just ridiculus.

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    Senior Member Evil von Doomstein's Avatar
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    I dont think they arent worth their points. i use them a lot. i just wish they had that little extra kick, you know? And i really want a unit size of 5. 1-3 is so ridiculous :realmad:

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    You have to remember that the units are ballanced over the army, not ballanced over the unit itself. Unit size and postion in the army (troop, elite, fast, heavy) also are important. Necrons have awsome fast attack, but we can't take that many of them, it makes us choose between swarms and wraiths of Destroyers.

    The cost of Pariahs is right, they are just not a very good unit. As for the cost of the wraiths, that is about right, they are a specialty unit that can be devistating if used right, or useless if used wrong.

    When I see tweeked units in threads they are always tweeked better (sometimes for some more points) but with little thought to the overall army (although this thread did a good job keeping the fluff in mind).

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