Welcome to Librarium Online!
First, a rule question. If a tyranid carries two of the same weapon, they count as twin linked. This creates a couple of unclear situations...
1) A warrior carrying two of the same weapon. Can he fire his single "twin linked" weapon even though it is two separate weapons and he can only fire one weapon? I think the best interpretation here is *probably* yes, he can, but I am far from positive.
2) A monstrous creature with two of the same *twin linked* weapons. Do these count as two separate twin linked weapons? Again, the answer is *probably* yes, but I can definitely see why someone would think not.
Has anyone else noticed how absurdly shooty nids can be with the new codex? In particular, fleshborers and devourers are INSANE. Try this on for size:
Tyrant (75) w/ +1BS (+10) and 2 twin-linked devourers (+16) = 101 pts.
I use a single-number "fire power index" to rate the shootiness of any particular unit against any other particular unit. Leaving out factors which are really hard to factor in, like range or rapid fire with 12", it gives you an absolute measurement of shootiness. FPI works like so:
Number of target models killed per average when shooting, times points cost of each target model, divided by points cost of shooting model.
Guardsmen shooting at guardsmen. (1/2 to hit * 1/2 to wound * 2/3 to beat armor * 6 cost of target model) / 6 cost of shooting model
Marines shooting at guardsmen. (2/3 to hit * 2/3 to wound * 6 cost of target model) / 15 cost of shooting model
FPI .18 [case in which guardsmen are not in cover]
Marines shooting at marines. (2/3 to hit * 2/3 to wound * 1/3 to beat armor * 15 cost of target model) / 15 cost of shooting model
As you can see, when using only basic weapons, most FPIs are going to fall into the range of .15 to .20. Actually since the system takes into account the cost of the shooting model, adding heavy weapons into the picture usually does not change things that much except with cheap heavy weapons mixed into squads, which pushes FPIs up to around .25. I use this system in real time in my head when playing games, which is how I almost always win without using any cheese. Obviously it works for close combat as well. CCI?
High FPI is around .3 to .5, with the highest FPIs (splinter cannons against gargoyles, heavy bolters against genestealers) running to around 1 (OW). Also, it is easy to adapt it to cases with heavy weapons mixed into squads... just run the numbers on a squad level instead of a guy level.
Let's run the numbers on our bad boy tyrant.
The "great devourer" shooting at marines. (12 shots * [1 - (1/3 * 1/3)] to hit * [1 - (1/2 * 1/2)] to wound * 1/3 to beat armor) = FPI .4
FPI .4 is astronomical for an "ordinary target" scenario (not a case like firing a lascannon at at 160 pt. character with toughness 4). Against marines he stacks up well against a warwalker with starcannon - only he kicks butt in close combat and is way harder to kill.
I also love the 18" factor of devourers. You can sit outside their 12" range and outshoot them.
Of course, they can negate this by just moving closer.
Moving closer... to tyranids.
I guess that is why they are called the "great devourer".
Three things. First up, good equation, it looks solid. Secondly, yeah, 'Nids can be a deadly shooty army, (in part because no one expects it, it was like that in V2 as well). Lastly, I'd remove the points from the opening before a mod sees it. It's against the rules, mods don't like things that are against the rules, they're funny that way.
Oh, by the way, Just noticed it's your first post. Well then, ahem, welcome to LO. If I might, I'd suggest posting in the introduction thread in the off topic forum. People will say hi, the mods will give you a howdo, etc. I'd also suggest that you find the rules, (I think it's at the top of screen on most screens). Give them a good read so you know how not to upset a mod, (not upsetting mods is a good thing, go figer). Aside from that, play nice, have fun and welcome to Librarium Online. I'll see ya on the boards.
Last edited by THE Hersh; November 4th, 2005 at 11:36. Reason: Hey, you're new.
A little pain never hurt anyone - Larry
It's also the reason why a devilfex or a deviltyrant have suddenly become very populair with people.
Hmm. I found it difficult to put any kind of serious firepower in in 2d ed. Not that I got into Nids to shoot.Originally Posted by THE HershI checked the rules and here is what they have to say...Lastly, I'd remove the points from the opening before a mod sees it. It's against the rules, mods don't like things that are against the rules, they're funny that way.I imagine the rule you are referring to is "posting material with copyright," and I can already see where this is going... paranoia about infringing GW's rights is endemic in the gaming community because the company is draconian in enforcing them. Let me tell you as a person experienced in intellectual property law that there is absolutely no way that what I posted can be considered copyright infringement.Originally Posted by Rules
I guess nobody is going to take my word for it so if you really want, AND somebody will actually pay attention to it, I will write a proper legal brief (although it has been a while) with statutory and case citations which will make it painfully obvious how much more limited GW's real rights are than they want you to believe. But it will take hours so please, I only want to do it if it is going to make some impact, like getting a rule changed or at least changing somebody's attitude.
On a final note in this vein, let me point out something else in the rules.This is absurd. If the mods want to go out of their way to protect GW *beyond* what they have to do, that is fine.. can't say I would do the same, but it is their board. But from the above it sounds like they actually think they HAVE to do this to cover themselves. This is not the case.Originally Posted by Rules