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  1. #1
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    Need a LOT of help... (Multiple Topic Post)

    1st- new to Warhammer 40, played my first game ever (a "friendly") 5 days ago, with incomplete armies, and we did around 40 things wrong in it, that we've discovered so Far. So, rules are just starting to get solid for us. (Also why I chose Necrons, in addition to flavor, seemed easiest to learn basic ruleset on). ATM, I'll primarily be playing against 2 friends of mine, an Ork player and an IG player, so I want to at least keep that in mind when building the army.

    Now, the army list- starting with 1200, then bumping to 1500.

    1200-

    Necron Lord
    -Veil of Darkness
    -Ressurection Orb

    10 Warriors
    10 Warriors

    4 Destroyers
    4 Destroyers
    3 Wraiths

    2 Tomb Spyders

    1500-
    As 1200, with the addition of

    4 Warriors (attached to existing unit)

    Monolith

    ____

    General tactic is built for Mobility- 2 Squads of Destroyers seek out and, well, Destroy, isolated or near isolated units. Wraiths move with them, if it seems they're coming under attack, and provide support and protection from Melee. If they aren't coming under assault, the wraiths do their thing, going wherever they are needed most in the battle (charging their front lines, grabbing the sides and increasing the damage against non-mobile forces which attempt to engage the more "stationary" units, finding isolated units hugging cover, whatever). The efforts of whichever needs it most, particularly against stubborn targets, are reinforced by the teleporting Lord and his retinue of Warriors (10 in 1200, 14 in 1500).

    Meanwhile, the Tomb Spyders protect the other 10 as they advance ponderously, the Spyders pumping out Scarabs until they take a wound from it (even if they only pump out 1, that's still an extra 2 wounds for it...), and generally intercept and screen for any CC troops coming against them.

    ______

    Now, my two "main" foes- the Ork player is a poor tactician. He has a poor understanding of Statistics, and is generally a poor player at this point, so I'm not particularly worried about him atm. His main strategy involves marching Killa Kans forwards, attacking flanks with Bikes, and having his main forces marching forwards under cover behind the Killa Kans.

    I'm figuring, use the Tomb Spyder's Scarabs to soak up hits from the bikes, teleport behind his troops and waste them, destroyers take out Killa Kans (even 1 will do, just need to open LOS, lay waste to troops, and have wraiths/ tomb spyders deal with bikes and killa kans if they close to melee before destroyers have done their work. Once their work is done, the 20 warriors, 8 destroyers, and Necron Lord previously near-unmolested should be able to finish the killa kans and bikes at their leisure. I've got all the time I want, since he's just too slow. In a 1500 pt version, even easier.

    Imperial Guard- tougher, especially since he's built his army to take ME out. Annoying as hell, but what am I to do.

    In the 1200 pt version, he focuses upon heavy weapon squads, in particularly Las Cannons (AP2, Str 9), and has 2 Basilisks and a Leeman Russ Tank.

    In the 1500 pt version, everything is mounted on Chimeras. Gives up some Las cannons for sick mobility, near infinite heavy bolters, multi-meltas, whatever. Oh, and EVERY Vehicle he owns comes equipped with Hunter-Killer missiles (like Krak missiles with infinite range).

    Now, What AM I to do? He plays defensively, since his endless artillary barrages mean that I MUST eventually come to him, or lose slowly and painfully. All units centralized within 12" of each other, basically, so coming within range of Any units means that I'm in range of ALL Las Cannons. My Wraiths are the only thing able to really tie them up to force isolation in a unit, by preventing that unit from firing at my destroyers, but if he gets into melee, he takes casualties from the line in contact with them first, so as to be able to fall back easily, and only lose a single turn.

    His tanks are gross, and I can't really kill them unless I devote all of my firepower to it, and then I'm completely exposed, or if I grab heavy destroyers, then I'm wasting points, and they'll never get in range ever anyways, since they're so weak vs. his army setup. wasting 130 points in a 1/8 shot at killing 125 points seems... not a good trade.

    So, Help me, PLEASE! Critique my army, critique my tactics, mention any rules I may be ignorant of, and PLEASE help me develop sound tactics against the army of uber gross Necron slaying (which happens to do fairly well in all but CC situations, btw, which the necrons aren't the best at....)


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  3. #2
    Senior Member Zora Blade's Avatar
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    I've dabbled in Necrons a bit, so I'll try to help out ^_^

    First off, I don't like monoliths in a game smaller than 1850. It's too expensive for my taste. Mabe take more warriors if your worried about phasing out.

    Against the orc player, stay back and shoot. Use all warriors and destroyers. Orcs have light vehicles so you don't realy need strenth weapons, so try to take weapons that shoot more than once. The Orcs vehicles are normaly only armor 10, so regular gause rifles should take them out fine. Don't try to fight them in Hand to hand, their choppas with make your armor 4+ which sucks, your definatly not going to attack first either so you might as well say bye bye to your armor. I personaly wouldn't use wraiths against him either, sence they are hand to hand aswell. Tomb spiders are a must in any Necron army, cause your "necrons" can get back up even if your unit is wipped out, as long as you have another of the same unit. Other than the spiders I wouldn't use any thing thats not "necron" class.

    Against the Imperial Guard. For them, be the total oposite that you are with Orcs. Take Flayed ones and Viel of darkness them on a flank and have fun. Take the heavyer Destroyers to bust up his heavy tanks. Heck even scarab swarms will own the Guard in hand to hand. I like making Guard flee off the table, make me laugh (silly men ^_^).

    Hope this helps a bit, all and all your army seems pretty sound.

    -Jenn

    Current Armys
    Tomb Kings, Marines, Eldar

  4. #3
    Senior Member tiaxrulesall's Avatar
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    i will provide advise against guard, as they seem to be the most troublesome.
    1. always have all necrons under a res orb or the bassies and leman russ will phase you out in 2 turns
    2.you need to be fast and CC, since he can outshoot you. to this aim take scarabs, as they mow through guardsmen, and can kill the heavy tanks by turn 2 with d-fields. also take a VOD and deepstrike a lith so all of your warriors can be in CC on turn 2. A d-lord to go with the wraith squad would be advised.

    3.i would drop the tomb spiders and destroyers, as they will not kill many guardsmen, and are very vulnerable to heavy weapons.
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  5. #4
    Member Borak's Avatar
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    You need to get scarabs, these are esential to slowing down the advancing hordes, they help you get more rounds of shooting at him.

    I never leave home without the monolith, it draws lots of attention but its ability to remove you from combat and extra WBB rolls is a must have, also Flux Arc projectors do lots of damage to Orcs Poor ArSv's

    Lots of troops to rapid fire also remove most of his ArSv's so they are good and of course Immortals and Destroyers.
    Only A Dwarf Can Appreciate A Hairy Woman

  6. #5
    Senior Member Zora Blade's Avatar
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    wow I guess I take back how I hate monoliths... Guess playing against blood angels they suck. they'll die by turn 2, if your lucky ^_^ at least against my blood angels But like I say before, it's expensive points wise, I woundn't advise taking it in any game lower :/

    -Jenn

    Current Armys
    Tomb Kings, Marines, Eldar

  7. #6
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    @Thaebius

    Here're my thoughts on your list and your questions.

    It may sound like a vanilla response, but you'd be well served to boost up your core troops. I'm pretty surprised no one has said that. The problem I see with what you are running is that if I were your opponent I'd just shoot my Leman Russ/Basilisks at your Necron warriors, destroyers and lord, and once I got you down to 7 of them left I'd call it a day since your army would just phase out. Your opponents might not be aware of this rule yet since, as you mentioned, they're pretty new as well. The thing with 1200 point lists is that everyone will want to bring their cooler, bigger models, but the points just aren't there for them, so what results is a small model-count army. With Necrons, a small model-count army is behind the eight ball.

    The rank and file troop (necron warrior) is a good T4, BS4, Save 3+, WBB 4+ (We'll be back) dude with a S4 weapon that can both rapid fire, AND get an automatic glance against any vehicle on an armor penetration roll of a six. If you haven't read the section in the Necron codex regarding Gauss weapons, you should scan it a couple times, since that really is one of the biggest, if not the biggest strength of the army. There's no reason that the enemy tanks should be getting more than one shot off each per game, total. They should be shaken/stunned or just plain destroyed pretty quickly. The key is that you need plenty of gauss shots for this to occur, and to get those "plenty of shots" you need plenty of gauss weapons; ie: warriors.

    Since CC (close combat) is not the Necron forte, just forego it entirely. Drop the wraiths, since your WS4 will be more than enough against guard anyway. versus the orks, they'll fare better against you in HtH no matter what you take (in the long run), so again, just beef up your amount of shots OR... find a way to keep the enemy from assaulting you, and affording you more turns to shoot at him. The monolith, while usefull, is too much of a point sink in so small a game, and to be honest, it is rather easy to destroy with heavy weapons, destroy in assault versus CC specialists/characters or just ignore altogether since it moves way too slow to be practical beyond 2 turns once it reaches the board. That also raises the issue of missions. If you are choosing missions randmly from the rulebook (my recommendation) then in quite a few missions everything except HQ and Troops start in reserve. Another reason why more rank-and-file Necron warriors will but the odds heavily in your favor, especially versus IG.

    The key there is scarabs. Get a unit of 10 scarabs to tie up all the IG lascannon teams and orks. A 10-strong swarm of scarabs is 30 wounds worth of expendable troops. Versus guard they'll murder, against orks not so much. But the beauty is that the scarabs can kill IG and orks, more importantly they tie up the enemy so you can get into rapid fire range. CC blocks line of sight, and you can use the scarabs to create blocked lanes of fire. By the time the scarabs die, you are in rapid fire range. Scarabs can take out vehicles in assault (with Disruption fields) and remember, you don't need to accomplish miracles, just glance and get the lowest possible results to keep him from shooting at you. If you blow him up, all the better. Scarabs never run away, they are unaffected and unslowed by terrain since they move as a jetbike (see codex), can deep strike if you'd like (I'd take 2 swarms if you're interested in doing so) and since they move as jetbikes they can turbo-boost (see main rulebook under jetbikes) which gets you where you want to be in a hurry plus gives you a good saving throw to boot.

    You can also apply pressure and try to supress his vehicles by advancing assault fire. The only way to do this is with destroyers and immortals. Heavy destroyers aren't really necessary, since it's volume of fire that's important here, moreso than S9.

    Basically, I say drop the tomb spyders and wraiths, drop 3 destroyers (and make one unit of 5) and don't even bother with a monolith. add 2 squads of scarabs, maybe 7 or 8 bases each (add disruption fields to one or both if you'd like) and put the rest of the points into getting more warriors or a few immortals.

    The thing is, you must use the board to your advantage. If it's a 6x4 table, and it probably is, then depending upon the mission, you will start as close to the enemy as possible. If he or she's smart, your opponent will start in the rear of their deployment zone. Since you have a 24" range, get those necrons close. Use cover. If you don't have enough cover, then you aren't setting up enough terrain n your games. The scarabs should be in CC with the enemy troops and vehicles on turn 2, guaranteed. Immortals and destroyers should be advancing, making attempts at glancing vehicles and the like on turn 1 and 2, or taking out high-threat foot troops like ork CC specialists or high-manuverability bikes. Turn 3 advance some more, turn 4 rapid fire away. If you don't see things going completely your way by turn 4, then it just wasn't your dice day.

    Keep up the pressure on the enemy from turn one. It all starts with good deployment, followed by prioritizing the most dangerous targets, followed by wasting his dangerous shooters or CC specialists with scarabs, and shooting the crap out of him. Coherency distance is 2", so keep your guys 2" apart. No need to get bunched up and make things easier for the Leman Russes. If things get hairy in CC, use your veil of darkness to teleport out of CC. Keep a second unit of troops nearby to counter-assault for the bonus attacks, while you veil your guys 12" or less away (smart deep striking is important so as not to end up in impassible terrain or on the enemy) and rapid fire at the now disengaged enemy troops. Your lord needs to be in the thick of things because of the need for the orb versus the IG tanks' high strength weapons. It's worth the risk of losing him for the big payoff.

    Hyper-agressiveness is the key with Necrons. Force the issue, I say. At least, it works for me.

    M.
    Last edited by PygmyHippo; November 7th, 2005 at 18:41.

  8. #7
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    To PygmyHippo:

    You rock, thank you so much for all the advice. Seriously, you have no idea. Thank you.

    ZoraBlade, Borak, and tiaxrulesall, thank you guys so much as well! You have no idea how much I appreciate all the advice. I want to just DESTROY this guy in my first match vs. him, and it wouldn't be possible without all of your advice.

    For the moment, whilst I chew on everything else, a single question for you:
    Standard is 6x4 feet, yes? Based upon your reply, I would assume this to be the case, but I need this in writing for it to be accepted as valid. Is 6 feet the Length of the table, or the width? That is to say, assuming a 12" deployment zone, on either side, what is the minimum and maximum range that units can start away from each other?

  9. #8
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    6x4 ft, 1 ft deployment zone on long sides. 25% of the board covered in terrain.

    Deploy anywhere in the deployment zone unless otherwise stated in the mission rules- often you cannot deploy within 18" of an enemy unit in missions other than out-and-out.

    looking at your original post, I'd say that in stead of having wraiths with the destroyers, have a scarab swarm in front of them- that allows you to sacrificially throw up a relatively cheap wall, allowing your desroyers to escape and own anybody who makes it out of the combat.

    Wraiths are best used in this way.

    Turn one: BANG!! That guy put wraiths into my guys! They're slaughtering my speedbump/flanking units, leaving my main body open for trashing! They have 4 str6 attacks on the charge each!

    Turn two: what wraiths?
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