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I need help; I have incredible trouble fighting my friends IG army I tend to loss quite often, because he kills my stealth suits which are killed by his Basilisk which is out of sight, my pathfinders who marker light his army get shot to pieces by heavy bolters and his basilisk and they rarely make it past 2nd turn my tanks get blown to pieces by his 4 laser cannons and I can not kill and many of his troops because he has the doctrines of cameleoline which adds 1 to all of his cover saves and he effectively gets a 3 plus cover saves while I can only wound him every so often.
Last edited by walks; November 19th, 2005 at 23:36. Reason: screwed up the title.
Are you keeping your guys in/behind cover? Remember to use your jump troops to move out, shoot, and move back. And being in cover is a must for Pathfinders.
Basilisk is a problem. I recommend using a single Crisis' to deepstrike with twin-linked fusion blasters behind it, or a squad of 8 drones to drop behind.
Use your markerlights to light up the guys in cover (and deny his cover save). Then follow up with a submunition round.
"I'd rather fight 100 Hammerheads than 20 Battlesuits" -Vinnie, an Ultramarine.
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he pumps that many shots that i lose many of my men and then they run away like little girls(. so i give one marker lights to each of FWs and they can get a few of those annoying coversaves away.
it would help if you told us how many points you are playing.
1st rule : dont use pathfinders unless you have some strange feelings for them
2nd rule: keep your fire warriors in cover and give the shasuis markerlights and target lock if you got points.
missilepods are your friends!!
In an allout stand-and-shoot scenario, the Imperial Guard will almost always defeat the Tau. They can field more guns, and they have an abundance of 48" weaponry, which is the gap in the Tau range.Originally Posted by walks
A decent way to get rid of the Basalisk is, as advised, taking a single kamikaze style Crisis Suit - deep strike him in with twin-linked fusion blasters and try and take that Basalisk out.
Now, it sounds to me as if you're saying his entire army is in cover; how is this possible, while you are obviously not in cover? There isn't that much cover on the table, is there? And is it all on his side?
Make sure the cover is evenly spaced out on the table, so that you both get some.
Keep your vehicles always on the move; if you haven't already, make sure to upgrade your vehicles with Multitrackers, so that you can always move and fire, so you get the Skimmers Moving Fast rule.
I would not recommend upgrading your Firewarrior Shas'ui with Markerlights - it is expensive, and means your squad must be immobile if you wish to fire with it. It's only at all useful if you give the Shas'ui a target lock, and if that's the case, you're spending even more points on a BS3 heavy weapon that has a small chance of helping you out. Honestly, the extra Pulse Rifle will almost always be worth it, IMO. Leave Markerlights to Pathfinders and Tetras.
I would exclusively use Hammerheads, if I were you. Use the submunition blasts to take out huge chunks of the enemy's infantry, while getting them with your Fire Warriors at 30", so that his normal weaponry can't reach you. I would use the Pathfinders (if you really need to use them) to mark in-cover squads for your Hammerhead(s)'s submunition; you want it to hit as often as you can, and negate the cover.
Also, make sure to use JSJ as often as you can with your Suits; Missile Pods are an excellent choice for your Suits, IMO, since they are long-ranged and you get a decent amount of shots with them.
Hope this bit helps; it would help us all more if we knew the size of your game, and what your normal army list consists of.
I am a bit confused by this post, how does he kill your Stealths with his basilisk, 1st he has to spot them, then he has to roll for scatter and add an extra D6 to the result because Stealths are spotted using night fight rules the odds on him hitting your Stealths are pretty bad, are you using the correct rules (is your opponent).Originally Posted by walks
You really have to be unlucky to lose HH or DF to 4 lascannons at BS3, what are you equiping them with and why are they in range of his 48" lascannons?.
The Railgun has a range of 72" use it keep the HH at the back of the field out of range of his lascannons, use the corners of the field.
Give the HH multi trackers and move them 12" EVERY turn, give them decoys so all immobalised results are re-rolled , and I guarantee you that you will not lose the tanks (keep em out of range and moving)
The Imp Guard have one massive weak point when facing Tau 4+ or worse saves, take 2 or 3 HH and drop submunnition rounds on units, use the pathfinders to ML units in cover and your hitting on 2+ and wounding on 2+ they will die(they dont get cover saves with ML), target units out of cover for no save hits that destroy units and force LDS tests (runaway mr guardsman).
I use 4 or 5 XV8's with fusion and Plasma working as lone suits, these will crisp a Basilisk no problem and take out other tanks as well.
Cameleoline will only give a 3+ save in things like trenches, buildings, rubble etc not in woods the best he will get in woods / jungle etc is 4+so the 3+ should be rare on most boards.
What other doctrines is he using?.
You have some advantages over him.
1 a 30" range basic weapon (pulse rifle) so use it, stay out of range of his lasguns (which will be the majority weapon)and poor shots into his 5+ save units of which there are a lot in Imp Guard.
2 XV8,s use the jump shoot jump move and target the tougher targets with them, use them to kill armour, with the 12" of movement a turn you should be able to get to the Basilisk, or do as advised and DS near it with fusoin guns.
3 Stealths, again use the JSJ and spotting rule to get close to infantry units and lay some fire into them, make sure your up to speed on the rule for scatter against Stealths with the spotting rule.
4 Hammerheads give them multi / decoys and a railgun, move 12" a turn keep them out of range and use those sub rounds.
5 DF and pathfinders, set up away from his heavy bolters remember they are fast attack so set up late or last and get a free move so use it to put distance between the PF and the Heavy Bolters. markerlight units in cover and they dont get a cover save, so ML and then drop a subs on thir heads.
It sounds to me like your not very experienced and your mate is exploiting this fact (if I am wrong forgive my assumption). The fact that you say he gets a 3+ cover save and your losing Stealths to his Basilisk just does not sound right to me, also the amount of his units in cover needs addressing by the sound of it, the rule of thumb for cover is 30% coverage of the table with mix of terrain types with even spread of cover between players.
Hope this helps, post your list and his and we can help you kick his a**
Everything that was said above is correct in my opinion, and i definatly think your buddy is cheating a little bit if he is playing that way every single time you play him. So keep the codex in front of you and look up everything you and him are doin. If you do this I think the results will be a little different.
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riki - the Basalisk is an ordnance type weapon, or "guess" you could call it, if I recall correctly. He doesn't need LOS, and he doesn't exactly shoot at specific units, persay; meaning, he could even end up hitting your hidden IC, even though he can't target the IC with a normal gun, etc. Scatter dice play a roll in there, too. It's being shot over terrain, so there is no LOS drawn, so rolling a spotting check would seem redundant.
He's not just using lascannons, ordonance blasts, rockets and plasma guns can all take out my tanks. And if he deploys his anti tank weapons in a flanking style he can target pretty much everything with them. Remember we only play on a 4x6 board.You really have to be unlucky to lose HH or DF to 4 lascannons at BS3, what are you equiping them with and why are they in range of his 48" lascannons?.No most of his army is in cover, not quite all of it. The units out of cover are the expendable ones that I don't really care about, the ones I want to kill are sitting in cover.Now, it sounds to me as if you're saying his entire army is in cover; how is this possible, while you are obviously not in cover? There isn't that much cover on the table, is there? And is it all on his side?
I do deploy in cover, he just shreds my men with a large number of shots, typical guard. :tongue:Lone as in 1 suit in the squad? Wouldn't that push you over the 3 elite choices limit?I use 4 or 5 XV8's with fusion and Plasma working as lone suits, these will crisp a Basilisk no problem and take out other tanks as well.Unfortunately that makes up the majority of our small pool of terrain.Cameleoline will only give a 3+ save in things like trenches, buildings, rubble etc not inCheating, how so? Or do you mean being cheesy?Everything that was said above is correct in my opinion, and i definatly think your buddy is cheating a little bit if he is playing that way every single time you play him. So keep the codex in front of you and look up everything you and him are doin. If you do this I think the results will be a little different.
Anyway, I changed my list to incorperate a lot more Fire warriors and markerlights. I did use the target lock/ML combo, and when I combined it with the stealth suits it really did soem damage, I managed to wipe out a squad a turn with them alone. I used the pathfinders in this role to, and I used their leader to target different squads for submunition blasts.
I shredded him.
Admittedly his luck was sh*t. during 5 turns of shooting he killed only 2 firewarriors and a broad side. In assault he managed to slaughter the four crisis suits with twin linked fusion blasters that I deepstriked, but they were sacrificial anyway. The only reason I took four was, well I think crisis suit suck against guard, their low BS and low number shots against his high cover save means they don't do anything. Dropping them down wiped out two tanks and distracted units to forgo firing to assault.
Oh, the doctorines he uses:
Close Order Drill
I play Imp Guard and I know how basalisks work, they can take indirest fire as an option but they still scatter, if he does not take indirect fire he has to spot the Stealths. also indirect has a minimum distance of 36" which is even better for the mobile stealth units.Originally Posted by Lost Nemesis
Any ordnance weapon can drop or scatter onto an IC but you can choose which models to remove not just the ones under the template.
Obviously if the indirect option is taken the LOS is redundant but the scatter isn't and the 36" range should help, also the indirect no LOS option means two D6 are used. this bloke should not be losing his Stealths on a regular basis to a Basilisk the odds are to much against it.