Welcome to Librarium Online!
Join our community of 80,000+ members and take part in the number one resource for Warhammer and Warhammer 40K discussion!
Registering gives you full access to take part in discussions, upload pictures, contact other members and search everything!
I thought I would try to start general advice thread for Tyranid Players. Add as you see fit. My advice would be as follows:
- CC fexes are rarley, if ever, worth their points. Yes they look cooler than a gunfex with a Vennom Cannon and Barbed Strangler, but on the game table stick with a fex that can shoot the snot out of an opponent.
- Gaunts should never be taking upgrades. Termagaunts, and especally spinegaunts, should come on the board with nothing but their weapon. Their goal is to be meat shields and at least with termagaunts, an anti-light infantry force. They're going to die in droves so don't make them cost more than they are already.
- Synapse is key. While it may seem obvious, with shiny expensive things like carnifexes, ravners, and lictors, it is easy to forget to put enough synapse to keep your bugs munchin. While the venerable Hive Tyrant with wings is always a good decision, Warriors with a few cheap bio-morphs will never let you down. Zanthrobes are another good option with their 2+ save, but cost almost twice a warrior.
- Quantity over quality will often win the day. Its very easy to start losing alot of points quickly with too many biomorphs or expensive creatures. Even the godzilla 8 MC list can fit in a craplaod of cheap spingaunts or rippers to help fill their lines. The point is that the more units you field, the better your redundancy and thus your chances of winning.
Last edited by thedrifter777; November 26th, 2005 at 02:47.
"Dare to be Naive"
If someone helps you, or you just like what they say, rep them
Quantity over quality also applies to your units. 3 units of 3 warriors is better than 1 unit of 9 warriors, (assumming you have the FOC slots).
Always remember, a well balanced fleet can lose any part of itself and still succeed.
A little pain never hurt anyone - Larry
I am seeing far too many crap broods in the Army list. So to save people time here is a quick listof what is best to take. This is by no means exhastive.
Winged - wings, tox, 2 ST, +WS, flesh hooks - 151 points.
Add warp field if you have the points. Use this guy to get in fast and smash MEQ units. Be carefull to avoid power fists & force weapons.
Assasin - wings, tox, 2 ST, +WS, +init, implant attack, flesh hooks - 178 points.
Add warp field if you have the points. Use this guy to kill greater demons, librarians and tough characters. You are relying on a lethal charge attack to kill the victim before he fries your brain.
Swarm Leader - tox, ES, ST, VC - 149 points.
Add EC if there are a lot of missile launchers around. Miasma is a good buy to help your guards & guants. This guy is hard to kill synapse support. This VC will take out light armour, and with some luck a predator. It will be turn 3 or 4 before this guy makes combat. It is highly advisable to give him 2 or 3 tyrant gaurds
EC, Tox and 5 or 6 in the retinue.
Add implant attack to kill characters or feeder tendrils to support your gaunts. You will not be infiltrating 1/3 of the time. So I strongly recomend a minimum retinue of 5 or 6 genestealers with just EC.
Leapers - leaping, RC, ST, EC.
Add +init, +WS or bioplasma to suit your tastes. REMEMBER keep them cheap.
Shooty - just don't take them. they are crap compared to a carnifex or zoanthrope.
Lictors are great psychological value. The +2 save is great in cover. It can take an incredile amount of fire power to kill. Once your lunch knows you have one he will have to consider it in setup. Parking a Basilisk behind terrain will now be a problem. Even with his awesome stats Lictors are very fragile in combat. They are best used to smash tanks. It isn't to hard to pop out behind a Predator and smash its rear armour. Feeder tendrils can help your guants and it can help win combat with them. In a pinch you can try to tie up a devastor squad, or kill a IG or Eldar command squad. Str 6 means it can instant kill toughness 3.
EC - this is almost mandatory. Need I remind people that most MEQ use AP5 weapons.
Scuttle - has its uses.
Spinegaunts - are dirt cheap & great in numbers.
Termaguant - the better weapon marginally justifies the extra cost. It can glance AV 10. Keep in mind you very rarely shoot more than once.
Hormagaunts - the 12' charge more than justifies the extra cost. Great for covering the rapid fire kill zone & locking units in combat. The only biomorphs I would consider on them is +init or +WS or both.
All guants will need synapse support. Particularly Hormies as they charge off. I suggest leaving a trail of them to keep 1 in synapse. For regular gaunts recomend broods of 13 to 18 to maximise chances of a good FoC rolls. For hormaguants you want 18 to 24 in a brood. Huge broods of 24+ are a problem to manuveure.
These guys are excellent support for your Carnifex's. Leaping is a good upgrade.
You want either 1 or 6. These guys are extremely fragile. I would only recomend taking 1 unless you are an experienced player.
One of the best guants you can buy. Unfortunatley you need about 14 to be effective and they cost (in cash) a bomb.
Spore Mine Cluster
If you have a few spare points they are great to break up tight formations. And the floaters can severly limit your lunchs movement.
Great for the extra synapse. The warp blast is a bit random. Keep in mind that they cost half of a cheap Carnifex. If you want them to be effective you will need 2 or 3. Note that they now have toxic miasma. So don't hesitate to throw him into combat, unless there is a power weapon nearby.
These guys are very sub-optimal (crap). They have to be deployed together, get brood telepathy like stealers but have a crappy 5 Ld. On the plus side they can hold table quarters which is good when the army leaves the starting quarter. Spore mines are very random and use the small blast template. I would probably only use one for annoyance value and to force target priority rolls.
There is an excellent write up on the new carnifex on another forum (not Librarium Online). What it boils down to is. Shooty 'fexs are the best. Avoid CC tooled 'fexs no matter how cool they look.
Dakkafex - 2 Devourer & ES - 113 points
CC elite - 2 ST, +WS, +init flesh hooks - 112 points
Gunfex - VC, BS, ES, reinforced chitin - 163 points
Uberfex - VC, ST, +init, +ws, bonded exo, ES, flesh hooks, rein chitin, mace, miasma & tusked - 211 points
The Big Black Book (BB recomends 25% of the table be various cover.
Remember Guantity over quality. Spelt correctly means more is betterer.
Remind marines that their brains are tasty
Last edited by Zerling; November 26th, 2005 at 03:13.
"No one has a monopoly on wisdom."-S.W.G.
Fluff Master Clan initiate.
"I know not with what weapons World War III will be fought, but World War IV will be fought with sticks and stones."-A.E.
"Before you embark on a journey of revenge, dig two graves."-C.
New 40K missions here.
I don't agree with this, people keep aking bad comments about pure cc fex's without even trying them, I have been using 2 of those monsters and they always get the job done, and that's causing terro en herding the eenmy were I want them, if your playing cityfight or on a board with lot's of terrain on it these beasts are so worth it, watching such a fex walking through 3 full turns of shooting and not taking a scratch is very demoralizing for your opponent.Originally Posted by Zerling
So your opponent doesn't use lascannons, starcannons, and various other ap 2 str 6+ ranged weapons which often have cannon in their name? Thats the main problem with CC 'fexes, every army besides tyranids has some sort of ranged weapon like that. Dark lances, predators, monaliths, obliterator, IG tank I can't remember the name of, etc.Originally Posted by Dreachon
They do have them but if squads get tied up by gaunts, lictors and other critters their shooting will quickly diminish, I also play on tables with a good amount of shooting and I always make user of cover.Originally Posted by Hive Fleet Scorpii
If you have more than enough beasts on the table the enemy will have t a lot harder to deceide what to take down, especially if his tanks got pasted by my gun fex's.
I think you're thinking of the Laser Destroyer. Just the name of that tank is scary, and the weapon it wields isn't a relief. Basically a long range vindicator/demolisher. I don't get to play my nids very often, and since I'm now in another country I don't get to play at all, so I don't really have any advice. However, that Carnifex post you speak of was very thorough, and I liked it.
My gaming group's new motto: That army you're using is overpowered because it hurts my guys, codex is broken and needs a rewrite.
I am a bit surprised that no one had any thing more to add to this thread. So I have dug it up to answer a common question. What is the best things to but when starting a new swarm?
My first recomendation is get the codex. Then look at the battleforce box it contains: 3 Warriors, 8 Genestealers, 8 Hormogaunts, 8 Gaunts, a Carnifex and 3 ripper swarms (I think). This gives you a good core list and saves you money. A rare thing from GW. This army will be just over 500 points.
The first problem is that you don't have enough gaunts to make a useful brood. If you are going to use gaunts at all you will have to buy another box.
Next problem is only one synapse brood which are fairly fragile. Most cost effective synapse is a Broodlord. This guy must have a retinue of 5 to 11 genestealers. He is a combat monster with infiltrate. His big downside is that 1/3 of the time the senario won't allow infiltrate and his brood looses fleet of claw. The cheapest choice points wise is a Zoanthrope. This guy will also give you warp blast. The only problem is that he is slow and it is very likely that your Hormaguants will charge out of synapse range. Most popular synapse choice is a Hive Tyrant. A big, nasty, killer that is hard to take down.
At this point you will have about 750 points to play with. The major Tyranid strength is in numbers. Take the bare minimum ugrades so you can have more critters. I suggest making all your warriors leaping with rending claws and scything talons. You won't have enough rending claws. Ask to proxy some other weapon (blutac is your friend). Most players will give newbies a bit of leeway on rules.
I recomend playing a few games to get the feel of your new army. Don't be disheartened if you lose a lot. Playing Tyranids sucessfully for newbies will be hard. You can loose up to a 2/3 to 3/4 of your force getting into close combat. This is why synapse coverage is vital. However once you get: 3 warriors or 5 genestealers or a brood lord or a tyrant into combat you will smash things.
Once you have an idea what works for you these are the common army lists
Lot and lots of gaunts with support. It is fun when deploying this to see the look on you opponents face when he has placed all his units and you still have another 50 more models to place. This is a succesfull army. The huge numbers of gaunts just overwhelm the enemy, they just can't shoot that many before they are up to their eyeballs in gaunts. Next thing he knows is genestealers have swept through his army. The only downside is moving 90+ models every turn makes games last a long time. Also it will take many days to paint your army.
The Balanced List
This army will have a good mix of various broods to handle different threats. There will be a couple of gaunt broods, 1 or 2 genestealers, a tyrant or carnifex for anti tank support, maybe lictor or brood lord, what ever suits your tastes. This is the most common and effective army.
The 'Nidzilla list
You can now have 8 monstrous creatures in a list, 9 if you count the Red terror. No one can deny the amount of fire power it takes to kill a tyrant or carnifex. I havn't heard effectiveness of these lists, but do expect to be called cheesy.
Vanguard or Genestealer
Basically this is an all genestealer army with a broodlord and maybe a lictor. This list fits in with the fluff about the initial infestation of a planet.
Keep reminding marines that their brains are tasty
one thing i like to say.... when making the monster like fexs_tyrants, choose what they are going to do. ppl are combing both roles of cc and shooting. this is not correct! Choose cc or shooty ,not both(