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This is my first post in this forum. I'm relatively new to 40k. I've been playing Nids for a little less than a year now.
Most of my games I play against my friend's Ork army. But nearly every time we play, he really destroys me. Like, I'm almost entirely wiped off the board by turn 4 or 5. And I'm getting tired of losing so badly. I come here looking for strategies to help me beat Orks.
We play games that range from 500 to 2000 points, and he plays a couple different kinds of Ork armies (everything from footslogging swarming armies to Speedfreaks with lots of buggies, bikes, and looted vehicles), so I'm not really looking to design a particular list or beat a particular list. I'm just seeing if any of you more experienced players have found any weaknesses in the Ork army.
The problem I've noticed, is that even though Nids are a primarily close combat army, the average Ork is better in close combat than the average Tryanid.
I thought for a while that I could out-shoot the Orks since they have an average BS of 2 compared to the average Nid BS of 3. But when you factor in Ork abilities like the ammo runtz, the twin-linked shooting of their bikes, the power of the guns on a looted Leman Russ or Land Raider, and the better range on shooting that their guns have compared to ours, it doesn't seem possible to out-shoot them.
So lately I've tried besting them in close combat, but even that has proved challenging. Orks' high toughness compared to our gaunts' strength of 3 means our troops usually have to roll 5s just to wound them in close combat, whereas they only need to roll 3s to cause a wound to us. Even my hormagaunt squads don't last long before getting pummeled to death. Genestealers do work wonders with their rending claws, but you can only put up to 12 in a squad. Even then, 12 is very expensive point-wise and they can still be overpowered by bigger Ork units. Even monstrous creatures don't last long when a Nob with a power claw or a choppa gets into close combat to negate/reduce armor saves.
To make matters worse, my friend has been using big squads of Stormboyz a lot as of late. Their 12" movement makes them hard to catch, and they get like 5 attacks on a charge each (and I thought a charging squad of hormagaunts got a lot of attacks...) I haven't been able to do anything to take them out efficiently.
Plus those Burna Boyz...flamer templates are my mortal enemy.
His tanks are trouble too. I usually take a Carnifex or Hive Tyrant with a Venom Cannon/Barbed Strangler in order to shoot his tanks down. But the problem with that is then my bigger guns are tied up killing his tanks instead of thinning out of his massive swarms of Orks. And even if I do focus Barbed Strangler shots on his troops, he puts his Gretchin in LOS to give his other Orks a cover save, and on the times when the Strangler does hit, it's practically impossible to pin an Ork unit since Mob Rule makes it very unlikely that he'll fail a morale check (even if he's getting -1 or -2 from a nearby Tryant/Zoantrhope with Psychic Scream).
So yeah, Orks are trouble. Is there anything you guys do to prepare against an Ork army? Is there any particular weakness you try to exploit? Are there any units you've noticed that are really effective against them? Any advice you can give me is welcome. I want to be the one to cause all the mayhem next time we play ;-)
I exploit the orks needs to charge, if they don't get the charge they are in a lot of trouble against nids.
You should by listing what you have sofar so we know with what to work.
In any case several fex's should deal with the problem, broadsidefex with VC/BS, devilfex with twin devourers, uber cc fex's ( surprisingly they are a nightmare for orks, if they have T7 normal orks can't hurt them ), warriorbrood equipped with BS/DS.
I feel your pain. My main opponent is an Ork player. What I have found is that, on the whole, 'Nids are faster. So, try to ensure you get the charge, (as posted, prior), and ensure that you control the match ups. Putting your 'Stealers into his grots is BAD, (trust me), and be warry of any obvious charges, it may be a bait unit and there may be a bunch of those flamers nearby.
A little pain never hurt anyone - Larry
I found that gaunt shooting destroys orksies. Consider Gargoyles, for 2 more points than a hormigaunt you get jump troops, with fleet, S4 guns, and 3 attacks on the charge (one of which being S4 I8)
People who've played me hate gargoyles.
Also consider having som tyrant guard on a shooty tyrant. They're actually REALLY powerful.
From the unspeakable cold of the intergalactic void, an immeasurable alien intelligence moves ever closer. Barren husks of countless star systems lie in its wake.
The first tendrils of the Great Devourer, a single entity stretching over light years of space and controlled by the immortal Hive Mind, have probed our galaxy and found it rich in prey.
It has begun to feed.
The biggest thing you can do to win against anyone is dictate who fights what, and where that happens. Orks are no different, you just have to know what should fight what. I think one of the biggest problems I have with fighting orks is that with their trukks they are more mobile than the usually speedy nids, so they (or a looted basalisk) is priority one, once they are gone you just need to make sure your good units get to fight their good units. I think Hormigaunts are wasted against orks because they want to get to you more quickly than you want to get to them, you should only use spine gaunts--if they use grots your spine gaunts should be able to kill them all quickly, and if they don't you can pepper their troops with spinefists before they charge you. Then use your stealers, and warriors to reassault. Once the fight has begun your heavy hitters should wipe out any body he has on the board as long as you are charging them they probably wont even get to fight back.
Just remember what he is tying to do to you, and kill the units that help him acomplish it
-kill his trukks so he can't avoid your gaunts and go straight to your real fighters
-Keep your gaunts between your genestealers and his scotchas and burnas, so he can't tourch your toughies
-occupy his powerclaws so your monsterous creature can't get scratched
-pepper his orks with small arms fire (spinegaunts and gargoyles) so he can't reach close combat with full ranks
Yes it is tough to do, but if you just assess what is going to get his toughies into your toughies and prevent it you should beat him.
I have never seen an ork army before (other than on the computer or paper), or have ever read their codex, but they don't seem too bad. I've probably got something wrong, but, BS 2 isn't much to fire at the Nid's, the best CC army. We are great agaisnt other cc armies, and orks have crappy saves, as well as low I and WS. Only when they get that ork waagh! thingy of theirs do they start to fight. Even then, their boss or something only has WS and I 5 (I think). The Hive Tyrant has WS and I 6 (or better, I forget), and the Broodlord has I 8!
Based on what I know about orks, I suggest you try and have a good, close combat nid army. Rending claws don't matter that much, as they have poor saves, so get scything talons instead, and winged creatures/infiltrators, so that you can attack him first and take lots of his guys out with your extra attacks. This way, I don't think he gets that Waaagh! power thingy. I dunno. If I was playing an ork army for the first time, I'd invest in stealers and hormies. 4+ save, 4 rending attacks mixed with 12" charge and 3 charged attacks - sounds good to me, especially against a mob of around 100 orks.
PS : I wonder if they have anything for 2 T 7, 2+, 5 W, Regenerating Carnifex's?
"If a ninja does anything anywhere it won't make a sound, but if it does it's probably gonna be the last sound you hear."
Most tyranid players seem to dislike biovores, but I think they might become your best friends. As you said, your shooty tyrant and fexes with venom cannons and barbed stranglers have their hands/talons/whatever full with tank busting, so a couple of biovores with either toxin og frag mines would help holding back the ork horde. Either they will kill some orks, or they will force him to move around the mines, either way, you gain some initiativ to charege in where you want to.
I dont know if you're familiar with the ever popular Dakka fex, its got 2 twinlinked devourers and enhanced senses, totalling in at 113pts its wonderfull for killing hordes of orks... best of all, if you're playing 1500pts + you can take i as elite. A hive tyrans with a similar configuration and a couple of guards can shoot the orks apart and still hold his own in CC.
Fast and Deadly: "PS : I wonder if they have anything for 2 T 7, 2+, 5 W, Regenerating Carnifex's?" <-- Nobz with powerfists, the good old "hidden powerfist" strategy.
As I said earlier, my main opponenet is an Ork player, so, I believe I have some solid experience her.Quantity over quality. Their shoota boys, (same stat line as a bolter), cost about 6 points, IIRC. That's a LOT of shots. They also have a goodly number of twin linked "heavy" weapons AND all their "heavy" weapons are assault weapons. IIRC, every single weapon in the Ork armoury is either assault or rapid fire.Originally Posted by Fast and DeadlyThat Waaagh thingie makes them NASTY, IF they get the charge. They can also field more units than us.:yes:Originally Posted by Fast and DeadlyRending claws are useful as they do have some unit and characters with good saves and pretty high toughness. A good sized units of grots, with a Slaver, can tie up a fex for a full turn or two, for a lot cheaper than the fex costs.Originally Posted by Fast and Deadly
I agree with the main tactic, (lots of Stealers and Hormies), but, I would also thro in some special stuff to take out trukks or looted vehicles, (IMO lotsa Lictors would work).
A little pain never hurt anyone - Larry
Raveners with 2 pair of ST are another excelelnt unit to tackl.e on the orks, they are fast and combine a large amount of atatck, perfect to support a gaunt unit in cc.
Orks form my main opposition - I agree with nichodemus above that you need to control the flow of battle and dictate which units engage which opposing units. My general tactic is to push my gaunts forward - don't worry too much about the bikes, leave those to the heavy hitting creatures in the second wave (Fexes / Zoanthropes / Warriors), just keep moving them forward.
Out in front I have my winged tyrant, soaking up what shooting the Orks manage to do right. My fexes tend to attract some stick at this point, but unlike my tyrant they usually make it through the next turn at least. Broodlord and retinue infiltrate and cause havok in one of the flanks. My Fexes / Zoanthropes follow up with anti vehicle fire. Looted Land raiders can be a tough nut to crack, but the damage potential is lower because it's orky. Battlewagons can have some fearsome firepower (If you've ever seen a Zap Cannon in action you'll know what I mean), but are open topped and thus more vulnerable and easy to pop (and it's always a treat when it incinerates three quarters of the troops it's carrying, and leaves the rest in difficult ground!).
This keeps the Ork force busy for turns one and two, limiting damage to the gaunts, and the business end of my army.
Then, I'll direct gaunts into CC with front line ork units. Always put a brood of gaunts into combat with Mega / Power Armoured Nobs if you can - you'll render a several hundred point unit useless for two+ turns like that.
Deny Orks their charge (this is really important), and watch for 'Ard Boys - their armour save can be a formidable problem. I usually push a couple of gaunt units into one of those and then use rending warriors & stealers to cut them down. If possible I've already softened them up with my Broodlord & retinue. Spread the rest of your gaunts around where you'll think they'll last through to at least the ork's next CC turn - this will again deny them the charge. You're looking to create a line of combats which will stop the orks advancing.
(Note, my oppenent doesn't use grots, but I'd deal with that the same way - slam a unit of gaunts in (which will get doubtless get charged by orks the next turn) - but you can afford to lose that unit - just make sure you stall that unit next turn like the others)
All of a sudden, the Orks are just passengers. Their tactical choices are very limited, and you have the upper hand. He'll spend the next few turns trying to chew through about 300 points of your army whilst you use the sharp end of it to surgically cripple his force.
Carnifex's probably won't have made it into combat yet (Devourer's work well as do the BS) - if they've creamed all the vehicles, use them to mop up any ork unit that manages to free itself from Gaunts. Barbed stranglers make a real mess of ordinary orks, as do Zoanthrope normal blasts (Zoans are necessary for me to retain synapse control up front - if you mess that up then the whole thing goes to hell and quickly.)
A Carnifex can really ruin an ordinary ork unit's day - if you've got it set up right, only the nob can actually hurt the beast, which means you've got it tied up whilst you bring in warriors / GS.