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I've played two 1000 matches versus a Black Templar force, using my broodlord/'stealer list:
Hive Fleet Fiesta de la Ascension
Broodlord - TS, EC, implant attack, fleshhooks
5 'stealer retinue - STs, fleshhooks
9 heavy 'stealers - EC
3 x 8 'stealers - fleshhooks
2 x zoanthrope - warp blast, synapse
vow: Accept any Challenge (?) (only ever needs to roll 3+ to hit in cc)
Chaplain - power weapon, adamantine cloak
10 marines, 5 neophytes, 1 missile launcher, 1 flamer
Emperor's Champion - iron halo, power weapon
10 marines - chainsword + pistol, 1 power fist
10 marines - bolters, 1 missile launcher
8 assault marines - jump-packs, chainsword + pistol
In each match it's been an easy win for the swarm. It appears despite the fluff and moderate tooling for hand-to-hand combat, the Black Templar marines are considerably less effective in close combat than genestealers. And since they have traded in effective shooting for this, they do not have the firepower at range to deplete the 'stealer numbers before they get to charge range. In several skirmishes I was able to get full broods of 'stealers into the attack rather than the usual 4-5 left after artillery and defensive fire.
Can anyone suggest ways my BT opponent could equip himself better to withstand my 'stealers? I suggested he get some assault cannons or storm bolters in somehow.
I really like this list, but I also want my opponent to be able to challenge it otherwise it's no fun.
Conpulsory in armys over 750. There is a vow that gives them a 6+ inv save which can be helpfull against rending.Originally Posted by andrewthotepThe cloak is useless in this case. Does the chaplain need a power weapon? Don't they get a free Crozius Arcanum? The flamer will rarely be used. Swap the ML for a hvy bolter or drop it.Originally Posted by andrewthotepConsider swapping all their bolters for a bolt pistol & CCW.Originally Posted by andrewthotepswap the ML for a heavy bolterOriginally Posted by andrewthotepSolid, maybe swap the chainsword for a power fist.Originally Posted by andrewthotep
You want to rework the squad sizes a bit. Have 2 small expandable bait squads maybe with heavy bolters to cover fireing lanes. Behind them position larger counter charge squads with armed with bolt pistols and CCW. Regular BT troops can swap bolters for pistols and close combat weapons. The Zoanthropes may be a problem with the BT rule about charging when hit with ranged fire. You need AP 2 weapons so a predator or lascannon may be good. Don't worry too much Zoanthropes their range is 24' & they have BS 3. A 5 man termi squad with 2 assault cannon are very popular now.
The BT will live or die by his deployment. Don't spread too far apart, but you want to prevent the brood lord infiltrating too close. Try to position you squads deep inside terrain. This will force a difficult terrrain roll on charges which may leave them in rapid fire range. You have to maximise your shooting. Keep falling back to stay out of CC as long as possible. Position the bait squads forward within range of the support but not within consolidation range. When the bait gets munched rapid fire the stealers. You could try deep striking a 5 man assault squad behind the Zoanthropes. With a power fist they will kill a 'thrope & be a big distraction.
Last edited by Zerling; January 4th, 2006 at 00:14.
I think a pred destructor (?) (2 HB and Auto cannon) would provide some much needed fire support, and maybe instead of missile launchers in the squads, HB, as you've been suggesting with the ap4 weaponary.
Two things i don't get with his list:
1- His chaplain has adamantine cloak, which, if i remeber correctly saves you from being instant killed, much in the same way synapse does for nids, but if i'm not mistaken, the only thing that can instant kill him is the more powerful warp blast, which can not target individual models if he's in a squad. He could spend those points somewhere else. Also, since chaplains come with power weapon and 4+ inv, instead of getting another pw (which i assume he has by the list you provided) he should get another ccw or bp for much cheaper, to get that extra attack.
2- Why he has a missile launcher in a 15 man squad that could be tooled for cc. I'm guessing he uses the squad for fire supoort but also cc, which is alright, but if you play to the black templar weaknesses you'd probably cause a casualty shooting, forcing them to run forward, negating the missile launcher and reducing range of bolters. Personally i'd make this sqaud a cc monster, and have the two troops squads as fire support with HB. If those two squads and with help from the rped try to get the stealers down to around half strength as ypu are used to, then the cc squads of 15 man one and assualt squad would stand a much better chance.
I think the main problem for most armies, even cc based ones against stealer heavy ones is the fact that the stealers are I6, while most other opponents are less. Even the elite comanders of the SM aren't ini-6. hehehe.
What i'd suggest is you let him play with proxying models (i they need to be) and just get him to try different unit and weapon combinations. If BT are allowed LST then get him to proxy a couple and see how they perform. Anyway, hope that your friend does better and gets a draw or somehting, or dare i say it, a win. Happy hunting for both of you.
P.S. It's nice of you to do this for him. Keep it up.