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Hello all, I play my buddy and he has eldar. I have not been about to beat him, ever. Out- shooting him doesn't work get into CC does work because I get shoot up before getting into CC. He takes a seers council and ties up a essential units of mine because THEY NEVER DIE with fortune. Well, its getting old and I'm about going stop playing against him because I've tried different stats and what not but does work. His Falcon hovering around me does help either. Could I get a little advice on how to defeat him? Hes grown REAL ****y over the last 2 years and its pissing me off. BTW I play Black Legion CSM. Thank you.
Heavy bolters rip eldar to shreds, I wouldn't bother about the seer council, its possibly the hardest unit in the entire game. Banshees and other aspects should be high piroity.
Obliterators are invaluable because of their versatility, use them to mow down anything that needs to die badly.
Indirect firing defilers are great for the seer council (any failed saves= squish). Make sure he's got enough upgrades to survive.
Keep your HQ cheap and nasty, maybe a lord with a manreaper and that daemonic inv. save (aura I think).
Any plague marine with an asp. champion with PF are good at taking out wraith lords. The avatar is easy to beat with the said HQ.
Assault units are not always a great idea due to the mltiple shot nature of eldar weaponary.
Don't bother with rhinos or LR because of brightlances. Starcannons should be high target.
Any abilities/powers that force LD test can work very well against eldar.
This is my advice, hope it helps.
It would be easier if you could detail his army and your own/use
Everything you have been told is a lie!
Rapid fire if the bane of eldar armies, if you can make an army pull that off then the troops are sorted.
-Try a predator with twin-linked lascannons and heavy bolter sponsens.
-Indirect defiler as mentioned above
-Rhinos and chaos marines.
-Teleporting Terminators/obliterators, rapid fire combi-bolters etc.
-Raptors, get into close combat with the troops which do not specialise in the area as chargin banshees is just asking them to kill you.
Against his tanks well if you have a few units with anti tank, like the havocs then it can be delt with but i can't say i know of any thing that could help against a falcon, all you can do is monuver around during the game to get like a meltagun or something into play. Oh yeh, deep striking heavy weapons might work.
I would try cheap marines and wouldn't bother powering up. This also applies for a lord, simple power weapon,pistol and daemonic aura will surfice.
2 heavy bolters
2 Plasma Cannons
this should work great against his troop-heavy army, and popping his falcon in the rear (odds are he moves it enough to were its only glancing anyway...) PF + bolt pistol on an assault marine vet sgt. works wonders... 4 attacks on the charge, 2 hit, 5/3 wound, ignoring his armor saves, next turn in counter assault you get that next wound... and bye-bye wraithlord...
AVOID Rhinos... bad things happen to rhinos when they get hit with starcannons *evil laugh* bad things... ind. fire is great... plz try and post rough lists, so i/others can give more specific advice.
For the gods' sake, stay away from terminators. Star cannons will make short work of them.
I've not played many games against Chaos, and I haven't lost to them the few games I played... what really would tick me off though would be loads of infiltrating CSM squads and Raptors. Predators are pretty good as well...
For daemons, Pleague bearers can be quite nasty against anything but the Seer council.
Warhammer Fantasy: Warriors of Chaos, High Elves
Warhammer 40k: Eldar, Space Marines, Orks
I love how the answers swing this side and that.
Now, be a little more specific about what he uses, and what you use. We can offer much better advice at that point. Also, any pointers as to general play style also will effect such advice, more info is better to help us narrow down how to beat him.
The main key to killing eldar is target priority (TP)
The council-dies to indirect fire, and massed bolters. Leave the big guns to other targets, but a pie plate or two, and a squad in rapid fire range will chew them to pieces, especially with a heavy bolter. For the most part, he'll drop fortune and mindwar, along with a few singing spears. Just keep your vehicles away and your DP or big nasties away (18-36") if possible, or tie the unit with a cheap raptor squad or better yet, some hounds. (TP=6, while he can snpe your models, range is limited. On the plus side, it's a huge point sink that dies to small arms by the droves)
Falcon-the toughest nut in the eldar arsenal to crack. First turn shoting before he moves is number one easiest way do kill it. If you get first go, pour everything you can into it. After that, you may be better off ignoring it while you whittle his troops for a few turns, as long as you don't have too many juicey vehicle targets. 1/3 of your shots at it should glance or pene (usually just glancing with SMF rule) and the holofield + SS make it hard to drop with just glances. The nice thing is that it's destroyed on a glance of 5, when moving and effectively a pen of 3+ will drop it and kill it if not moving fast. (again, first turn shooting is crucial) (TP=10 first turn if you get first turn of shooting, after that, tp=5 as the amount of firepower you will waste could be better spent shredding his squads)
Wraithlords-die to lascannons, missile lauchers, and very easilly to powerfists that are hidden in squads. Ignore them for the first 2 turns, while mangling his troops and transports, then make sure the wl doesn't get into hth before you have put a wound or two on it. (TP=0 first 2 turns, after that it jumps up to about a 7, as you don't want him wadding into your squads)
Waveserpents-any heavy weapon short of hbs and heavy flamers will hurt these. Major issue is the cargo. Banshees can really put the hurt onto chaos (except nurgle and oblits seeing as they need 6's to wound, same for bikes). You want to stop these from getting too close to your squads, meaning first turn you are ok to ignore them, if you went first (again, focus on the falcon till it's dead, then on these). After that, you want to get your squads either very close, or very far away, as a banshee coming out the back has a charge range of 20" on a good roll. So, if you have raptors, jump them to the back door, meaning he has to move the vehicle to disembark, thus can't charge that turn. Its a cruel thing to die, and even better if you can pull it off and then score a penetrating hit, as all the banshees are now dead (can't disembark with a unit within an inch). Also note, anytime you destroy this vehicle, the passengers will be pinned for a turn, meaning they can't move or shoot. While the wave serpent can spew a few shots into your squads, the main concern is the contents inside. If it's dropped troops, it can't claim corners or objectives. (TP=9 first turn if you've killed the falcon, if you have shooting first, other wise this will go to tp=10 until the troops jump out. Once the troops are out, the transport should be ignored until all real threats have been dealt with. TP w/o troops=4)
Reapers-while able to kill marines by the droves they also die to IDF really really easy. Just pie plate them once or twice and tada, no more reapers. Also, since all their weapons are heavy, if you avoid thier firing lanes, they'll be 185 pts of table scenery. (TP=1 if no fire lane exists, 7 if it does. If you have blasts or better large blasts tp=9 after the falcon is dead first turn, or otherwise 10 for blasts)
Banshees-the main aspect to worry about. They are fast and deadly in hth vs marines, but have a low strength and crappy armour. Heavy bolters, and rapid fire will chew threw them like no other. Also note, if your raptors are within range, you are better of shooting and assaulting, thus stealing the +1 attack charge from them. (TP=8 if within 18 inches, 3 otherwise)
More to follow, but that should be most of what you will have been facing besides vypers (tp=6)
16,000+ of Eldar (only need flyers)
7,000+ of Nids (want heirophant)
6,000+ of Space Marines (need rever titan)
4,400+ of Cygnar (all models for the faction)
1,500+ of Legion (just started)
Well maybe I spend to much time trying to kill his Seer Council... BTW he does 3 Seers and like, 6 Warlocks.
Then on top of that he usually uses...
2-3 Vypers (seperate)
2 squads of B. Guardians w/ starcannon
1 regular squad
Falcon or serpant (can't remember) w/ fire dragons
I've decide that aspiring Champion with Fist, D. Mut and Bits isn't worth it against Eldar. I'll take the points wasted on Mut and Bits and put them into infiltrate instead. Guardians are easy to take out. Plus I am gonna use 2 defilers now as well. I'll tie them up with with cheap guys an focus on mow down the rest of the army.
Anymore suggestions? (Thanks BTW y'all)
Seer Council. -Bog it with 20 stands of Nurglings. Cost. 2 Troops slots and 140pts. They won't win, but should tie up the council all game, and should kill most of the warlocks while they're at it.
While they're trying to chew through all that, jump the rest of his army, which due to the points your opponent spent on the Seer Council, should be smaller than yours.
Havok squads armed with:
4 Heavy bolters to chew up anything not in a Wave Serpent or Falcon.
4 Autocannons with tank hunter to fire at the Wave Serpent and Falcon or take opportunity shots at Vypers. Also great for wasting the Avatar.
Make sure that these squads are both big to soak up starcannon fire and in cover for the same reason.
2 Infiltrating plague marine squads with bolters and 2 plasma guns to rapid fire into his squads of guardians and the banshees. And also in order to be able to take Nurglings. They have true grit, so leave them in cover and fire away and force them to assault you. Your toughness should able you to survive even if the banshees can attack you.
Cheap troop choices to bulk out your numbers. Once again, I'd go with shooting rather than hth squads since bolters and whatever heavy and special you decide to take are plenty good against eldar and trying to get into hth will just get you shot with more shuriken catapults.
I'd leave out tanks due to the brightlances, but that's just me.
Furies: to jump on and eat guardian squads.
Last edited by Grey; January 13th, 2006 at 05:57.
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If you wanna get really nasty (and I cannot believe this has not been mentioned before), get a lord with infiltrate, d-speed and dreadaxe. Set him up in cover as close to the seer council as you can get. Run up to them and see how they like not having any saves at all.Originally Posted by LictorInTheGrass
Other than that just keep in mind that the seer council works best against big, expensive things. They can mindwar your lord to death in probably just one round, their witchblades make short work of dreadnoughts, tanks etc.
However, they do not do very well against power armor since they have not power weapons. A group of regular marines, or even better, nurglings can keep the seer council occupied for a long time.A fairly standard setup. If at all possible shoot the banshees and avatar while just about anything in the chaos book will kill guardians in cc.2-3 Vypers (seperate)
2 squads of B. Guardians w/ starcannon
1 regular squad
Falcon or serpant (can't remember) w/ fire dragons
BansheesJust a few. Someone earlier mentioned that shooting down the Falcon is much easier if you get first turn with a clear line of sight. You can improve your odds a bit by taking an infiltrating group of havocs, either missile launcher or autocannon. They can set up last, and if you can get them to have LOS to the Falcon or Banshees you are off to a good start.Anymore suggestions? (Thanks BTW y'all)
Avoid terminators since both starcannons and banshees kill them just as easy as they kill regular marines.
Apart from banshees and avatar you should be taking any chance you can to get into cc against him, thus negating that high tech weaponry (starcannons) and putting your vastly better statline to good use.
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