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I have recently seen quite a bit of reference on this forum and others regarding a supposed 10/10 or an ultra effective Tau list and I am curious.
It seems to center around a lack of Fire Warriors and lots of Stealths, I say seems to because I cant find a definative answer as to what this uber list is.
Now I like my own list and I think it works extremely well, I am of the opinion that Hybrid balanced lists are far superior in every aspect to either Mech or Static.
So heres my question what do you people think is the most effective list and why, this is not meant to be an opportunity to dis Mech, Hybrid or Static but more an exercise to try to establish the strengths and weakness of each type of list and also try to establish what this super list is exactly and discuss its plus and minus points.
Please lets not turn this one into a flame war eh.
No such list exists and anyone who proposes said uber list is the most ignorant n00b (God I hate that term) in the history of civilization.
Each army in this game can conform to multiple play styles. I don't care what you put up, theres a army and a list out there that can trump you with ease.
I know why you put this post up, I have been following the debates and I'm as frustrated by some of the things that have been said as you (for different reasons but still frustraited all the same), but your not going to get the results you want. Every levelheaded player is going to say the same thing as I "No such list exists" and they'll move on without posting, the only replies your gonna get are from the same people weighing in on the same old tired arguments and your just going to get more frustrated than before. Walk away now before your sanity is eroded beyond repair.
There is an applicable saying that applies to this (and this is NOT aimed at anyone or anygroup in particular, it just fits) The saying goes:
"Never argue with an idiot, they drag you down to their level and beat you through experience."
The only honorable options left to we combatants is seppuku or semantics...which amount to the same thing really.
Iv'e been really agitated about this whole "10/10" list as well. I believe the variation in the missions, levels, and other armies makes this notion absurd.
I would like to take a moment to rip apart the 18 stealth/ 6 firewarrior list.:argh: Out of fairness I will then give a quick example of my current list which I have not lost w/ yet and what I feel its weaknesses are.
Anyway, as for the 18 stealth/ 6 firewarrior list....
1. If the mission level is any thing but Gama these troops will have to cross a table and be subject to all sorts of different hazards before they can bring thier fire to bear. To those who will cry about the stealth armour protecting them I give this example: I Once had Ultramarine Legend Tigurius use his Fear of the Darkness (24" range, all units in range test morale @ -2) and chase my stealths and two Crisis Teams off the board. My point being the Stealth ability will not save them from all manner of attacks.
2. If you lose 1st turn a fast close combat army will rape stealths, especially if you infiltrate them. No question. Need examples? Tyranid genestealer army. Any good Dark Eldar player will laugh at you. I know a damn good one....he does.
3. This one isn't tactical, but bugs me most of all. ITS UNFLUFFY! In my experience I've seen some really unfluffy armies and this one ranks up there among the worst. I realize not everyone cares about fluff but I do. Its makes armies more characterful and unique and for me adds to the enjoyment of the game.
I would like to add that I have never used a list like this and these are just my opinions.
( I hear that everybody has one)
Now on to my current list. I play a mech army w/ a mainstay of three firewarrior squads in fish ( one w Aun'shi) and three hammerheads. I am currently involved in a 2000 pt junglefight ( 50% of board covered w/ forests ) Take and Hold tournament at my store and have won my first 3 games, 2 by massacre. I will fight the championship tommorow.
My list includes the units listed above and:
10 man kroot squad
3 man XV8 team w/ Twin plasma and drones
6 Stealths divided into 2 elite slots
5 man pathfinder team w/ EMP's
I feel this army is very balanced and it did very well before the current tournament too. I haven't lost w/ this list yet (about 7 or 8 games) but it is still far from a 10/10 list. Here are the situations my list have trouble with:
1. Omega level games w/ escalation would be trouble as the army would arrive piecemeal and probably get shot to pieces. Thankfully no one at my local store likes Omega level!
2. Heavy weapon laden armies. For the second game of this current tourny I fought the earlier mentioned Dark Eldar player and he brought a total of 16 Dark lances and 13 blasters. Thats 29 STR 8 shots! At the end of the game I only had 1 develfish left w/o a burst cannon. Do you wanna know what won me the game? All those underrated firewarriors sitting on the objective w/ Aun'shi and the kroot.
3. This one doesn't apply as I feel my list is very fluffy. My troops all have photon grenades (which some would say they should never have but Ill never leave Taun w/o them),
my elites are bonded, my stealth shas'ui has a markerlight (which I'll admit is useless, but FLUFFY!), and my army does not rely on any one unit to win the game (although my hammerheads usually account for 50% or more of the kills )
Well these are my feelings and I hope to see more action in this thread but I gotta wrap this up and get to work.
what is your list oni,it could give me inspiration about mine.
well to make a something near a 10/10 in 1500 point you need:
3 hammerhead with railgun,they rock period
some kroots,they are good
4 to 7 crisis,less will have you dearly lacking low ap agaisnt armies with power armour which you will face in tournies
stealth,im not saying you need 12 stealth or more you can have a great list with 6.Even though rikimaru will disagree with me on stealth i find that they are invaluable.
2 commanders,they are a great place to get some sweet low ap and accurate weaponry
-A tau, dark eldar and slaanesh csm player
-And always on LO chat..
well sure there may not be a 10/10 list but when we are sharing good unit combos like you just did players may be inspired and try and succed! i playd hybrid before but it was rather boring cuz they were som slow. som now i olay pure mech. dont have money for a third HH but i play with 3 12 man FW i DF lots of suits and 2 HH never really liked kroot but i have a whole stack of them ready for painting.. should try a unit of 20 and see how it works.
thinking of trying your XV8 cfg. i use the good but rather boring fireknife with a TL ML and target lock friend
anyone have good ideas to use XV15 to the limits??
think if we stop complaining and give facts this could replace the mechanised thread
Now you see this is just what i am talking about, svelene I like Stealths they have a place in many Tau lists (not mine but thts just my preference) but the fact that Stealths just have to be included is just wrong, my list performs against 90% of enemys but struggles against nids (in fact I posted a thread about this very problem) so that straight away makes it a less than perfect list but I defy anyone to make a list that includes Stealths that performs better for my play style.Originally Posted by svalene
So Svelene to sum up I have nothing against Stealths what I do hate is unbalanced lists that perform well against certain armies mascarading as crush all comer lists.
Phase thats a fantastic post, one of the best I have seen for a long time, I will reply to it but I am going to give it the consideration it deserves, I dont agree with it all but its well thought out and has a lot of relevent points, good work dude expect some rep coming your way.
Oni I am waiting for your input because as Astroth put very very well this thread could become a very valuable resource as to what units and configs for units work well, in fact the 9/10 list could very well develop here and Oni no matter what we have disagreed on in the past i value your input so share it dude.
Just think if we can keep it civil and nor diss someone for using whatever list or tactic they favour, and giving new and unusual tactics the consideration and open mindedness they desereve we may all benefit.
Quick little chart on armies. Not really sure what else to say.
Army of few, but Strong models = Army of Medium numbers and models. Why? The medium army has the numbers to take causualties and the greater number of attacks. With the Strong army, every loss hurts. However, the Strong army may prevail because thier units can take more hits and dish out more damage.
Army of few, but strong models = Horde army. Why? Same principal as above, one can make more attacks and has the greater numbers, meaning losing 1 or 2 doesn't matter. However, the hordes are generally weaker individual models. Example here: GK vs. IG. For every 3 Grey Knights, you can have a SQUAD of Guardsmen with an upgraded Weapon or two.
Basically, every type of army has it's fault. Armies with stronger units lack the numbers to easily beat the armies of more numerous, yet weaker troops. At the same time, the weaker troops lack the hitting power to take down the Strong troops in great number.
...Don't worry, I'm not really sure what I'm saying either.
Half Gods are worshiped with Wine and Flowers. Real Gods are worshiped in Blood.
Blood for the Blood God! Beer for the Bronze Keg!
well then you basically hate my listOriginally Posted by rikimaru
-A tau, dark eldar and slaanesh csm player
-And always on LO chat..
i dont think the idea of a 10/10 list is a acurate one. Their are definatly list the will perform well against certain armies but if you have a list that is tooled for IG you will probably get crushed by chaos space marines. So I think a 8/10 is possible to face all armies but not a 10/10.
Member of the United States Army (45B)
well first of i think it is that kind of post we would like not to se here!
have you guys read this? http://www-personal.engin.umich.edu/~leebj/index.html
its written by the TAU guru T0nkatruckdriver who has diapered all of the sudden.
but i think it is full of interesting facts. like the how many shots will kill a marine.
im going to play in a turney 27-29/1 and i will bring tau but the amount of 3+ saves is rather much 33/50 players has 3+. but i think my luck will help me