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Well i went to the GW store the other day and all i heard was, eldar suck man they need the update because they suck so much, if they were good theyd suck anyway, thats how much they suck. But my good friend recently bought their codex and if used propely i think they could be quite awesome. I mean an eldar army is like an everything has a purpose army but if it isnt used in that way your screwed army. I think they seem really cool personally so why do most people hate them and think they need the update the most? as an ork player i think that orks need the update the most. Or mabye well have revised codex black templars again...just because they can, dark angels, alien hunters, eldar them mabye black templars again, then orks (no specific order) well anyway i got off topic. Im just saying that eldar really dont suck they seem great on paper, dark reapers are like marine rapers and banshees buh bye anything that isnt a horde and scorpions are only 16 point monsters! They are awesome they seem, so why does everyone hate them?
“Krump first, assk qweztions neva'!"- 3000 Orks
Dark Eldar- 1500 1/0/0
"the very gods for vengeance cry”- 3000 Dwarves
no one who's played against a competent eldar player can say they suck, similarly anyone who's competant and plays eldar can't say they suck.
the problem is that half of the eldar codex doesn't work, fire prisms and shining spears are the biggest examples of truly rubbish units in the eldar codex but eldar have a lot of strengths, they have resilient units in the falcon and wraithlord, they have devestating firepower with starcannons etc and they hae great speed. i'm going to say that whilst eldar do quite desperatly need an update for some of the worst units, some of their units are overpowered (we've all seen the ulthwe seer council of doom tourney list) and need rebalancing. nevertheless they are still one of the best armies around.
Because they're dumb.
...no, really. Dumb as a freaking bowling ball.
Okay, that's not ENTIRELY accurate. The reason people say Eldar needs a revamp badly is, well, half the book has stuff that's horrifically out of date, redundant or just plain ass. Shining spear, for example. Sounds like a neat idea...REALLY fast moving cavalry charge, with a brightlance that hits on 2+! Then you take into account that for their points you could get at least double their number of banshees and you begin to see why next to no one ever fields them. Example 2, Fire Prism. This would be a spectular deal...if it had BS4. considering it's a one shot gun with no indirect fire ability, and it hits 50% of the time (not taking into account that you're ALSO only getting 50% of you partials rolls) it becomes clear why nobody uses one for long. Swooping hawks have been reduced to nothing more than either anti-IG or exarch delivery system, and an expensive one at that. Jetbikes are too expensive for what they can do, War Walkers can be quite devastating but are barely less than an INFINITELY superior and much more resilient Wraithlord, Reapers are heavy bolter and pie-plate bait (4+ save + very small numbers = squad go byebye on turn 2) half of the vehicle upgrades are garbage, Eldritch Storm is a joke and Dire Avengers serve no discernable purpose. Sure, the REST of the list is good, but when you take into account all the stuff that ISN'T you can see how badly the whole things needs some balance. The only reason they've left it this long is Eldar can still compete because of the different craftworlds. There is variety in the army lists people play only because the craftworlds themselves each have at least 2 ways to play them, and they all CAN work (some more consistently than others). Ultimately though, it's just a big jumbled mess that needs to be cleaned up.
As to people HATING Eldar...those are the dumb ones. I mean really, they're the reason I stuck with 40k so long. The closest I get to hating any of the races is Marines, and that's just because I'm so bloody BORED with them. Talk about overkill.
eldar can still be a very effective force based on the few viable choices in the codex and craftworlds.
here are some units that are still very effective:
guardian starcannon squads
pathfinders and rangers
as these are easily the most effective you can see why a lot of tournament lists look the same.
People say that Eldar suck because they haven't played against an experienced Eldar player yet. That's why I say Necrons suck, I have yet to play against a Necron vet... :sleep:
Besides, we have a lot of sucky units. But then, it's just up to us not to use them...
Warhammer Fantasy: Warriors of Chaos, High Elves
Warhammer 40k: Eldar, Space Marines, Orks
Woah. If eldar suck now.
Imagine how strong they would be ... in the next vamp O.O.
haha I pwn with my eldar, where do you live so I can pwn these people of yours?
a) that is pretty close to flaming, regardless of how much is true... i, however, have some objections...Originally Posted by SandwichBoyyour reapers are in HB range by turn two??? and pie-plate bait shouldn't matter, that's why GW made cover ahem ahemReapers are heavy bolter and pie-plate bait (4+ save + very small numbers = squad go byebye on turn 2)swooping hawks are great against most hord armors, esp. ones with crappy saves, so axctually orks seem better targets.... but they can be good against anything short of sms, minus the exarch...Swooping hawks have been reduced to nothing more than either anti-IG or exarch delivery system, and an expensive one at that.
and which of the vehicle upgrades suck i can't think of any... maybe vectored engines...
Eldar don't suck if you play them well, but in the hands of a newbie thay are doomed to lose (most of the times).The you have never played against Sebastian Larsson. Experienced Necron-player/power gamer that have scored good at all the GTs he have played in (every year he gets closer to 1st place) and I can tell you that his 1500pts Necron army of Doom is 1 of the hardest armies I have ever played against.Originally Posted by Victor
One 80pt land speeder will make a mockery of your 200pt squad very quickly. Even if the marines take two they are ahead on the deal (You aren't making that many cover saves).Originally Posted by farseer_seele
Having an army and not owning a rulebook is like owning a car with no steering wheel.Originally Posted by amishcellphone
honestly i have to disagree with you. marine heavy bolters often move 12" before they fire... stupid landspeeders. and as most people set up around 24-32" apart then i can see how they can be in range, especially as landspeeders are deployed last and dark reapers go down first or second depending on if they're heavy or troops.Originally Posted by farseer_seele
and even the best standard 4+ cover isn't going to save them when they're averaging 47 points a wound (for 5 man + exarch squad) they're just way too expensive and just by taking them you giva away quite a horrific number of VP's.where i come from we play "take all comers" style lists where you don't change your list to play any specific oponent (except armoured companies)Originally Posted by farseer_seele
therefore hawks are definately out. if they can't take MEQ's on then they're useless in that environment; more specifically in a tourney environment too.
thats what i think is a big problem with eldar being an army of specialists is. when i used to play beil-tan i first attempted to make a true take all comers list by making sure i could combat every possible enemy: i had anti horde, AT, anti MEQ. then slowly as i played more and more marines, chaos, DH i started to cut away everything that couldn't take on marines well enough. so i had some generalists like scorpions, spiders and wraithlords that did well against everything then some anti meq's like banshees and fire dragons. leaving nothing dedicated to purely dealing with hordes.really? what was his army like? i know the army wouldn't be all that contributed to his winning but i'm just curiousOriginally Posted by Da Mighty Camel
Last edited by TzarNikolai; January 14th, 2006 at 19:31.