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I'm just writing this cuz I keep on seeing guys talking about how Kroot suck. Then invariably someone sqwaks about how that's all a lie, and the discussion devolves.
Kroot do not suck. But they aren't "the assault wing of the Tau" either. The Tau armies largely eschew assault, that includes kroot.
Kroot certainly CAN be a tarpit, they CAN counter charge, they CAN pre-emptively charge. At various time these are good things to do with Kroot, but it's not really what they're for.
Kroot are meant to be infiltrated in or near a cluster of woods that is at or near the center of the board.
Please remember you have as much control over terrain placement as your opponenet does. Standard rule is each player gets d3+1 terrain pieces to place. It is not unreasonable to demand that every board have a chuck of forests, it is not unreasonable to place it near the center.
Heck, most of my opponents like it, they think by blocking LOS in the center of the board I'm doing them a favor. 'Course, with JSJ, tau actually like to block LOS as much as the next guy, but most players don't realize that.
20 Kroot are cheap. They pump out 20 shots, 40 within 12". They can fire through 12" of woods, the opponent can only shoot through 6". Additionally, in heavy woods they have a 4+save!!! This is awesome.
You now have a 24" radius death in the center of the board. That is a very large chunk. And there's not a whole lot they can do about it. If you're lucky, you can place the Kroot 7" back, and they can't be shot at at all, except from your side of the board. If you're unlucky, you have a 4+ invun save on 7pts models. Oh boo-hoo.
I'm telling you, there is basically no infantry that can approach that forest and get their points back. Tac marines, jump troops, nids, orks, don't matter. they are going to get shot up on approach, not be able to effectively return fire, and when they're in the woods, they're facing 20 angry kroot, which is nothing to laugh at. Heck, even Necrons, the traditional bane of tau, Kroot can take them in cc, even a bunch don't die from shooting (they won't).
If it was fast and tough, it was expensive. If it was good in assault, enough died on approach that they're not good enough.
Your enemy will either avoid the center, or allocate waaaayyy too much resources to storming it. Any way you cut it it's good for you.
Kroot aren't just good in this situation, they're broken. Playing this way fundamentally makes the rest of your army more useful. They will be harrassed less and have better targets.
One caveat, and one only. Flammers hurt kroot in woods badly, unsuprisingly. I'd like to think they won't allocate the dread with the heavy flamer to clearing them out, but they might. Tac squads and jump squads prolly still loose too much. There's immolators, but they're a rare case. Shoot the dreads and immolators with railguns, obviously. Tac jumps squads equipped with flamers, allocate som extra fire on them to help the kroot thin them out. Tac squads, you should get a pre-emptive assault on.
Last edited by Sir_Prometheus; January 16th, 2006 at 23:10.
tottaly agree with you.
i hope some people will see how useful the kroots are.
i mean for the price of a chaos space marine you get 2 kroot who have the same strengh,lower initiative,4 times as much attacks,2 bolters,a 4+ inv save in forest(where they should be) instad of a 3+ save and good rules while in cover.that is a ripoff!!!
-A tau, dark eldar and slaanesh csm player
-And always on LO chat..
first of all, to have 20 Kroot in one forest and still stay 7" back from the edge, it's gonna have to be one pretty big forest. They are best used in groups of ten, and next, NEVER assault, unless your going to assault IG, Eldar, or other Tau mainly because, you might get one less attack, but it is same strength, and there is a 100% chance none of your kroot will die that phase, because no attacks back. And even if you get assaulted next turn, your going to stike first (being in cover) and you still get 2 attacks each, that's a pretty solid counter attack unit.
+++++++++++++++++LET THE IMPERIUM BURN++++++++++++++++++
A) That's why I said even then, you get a 4+ save, and since you're picking the terrain piece, yes, pick a big one.
You are utterly, and completely wrong about using 10 Kroot. The whole point is to have bulk of fire, that whittles them down so that when they assault, they are few enough in number and the kroot are numerous enough, that even should they be better, it doesn't matter. 10 Kroot would be a tragic, sad mistake.
C) Conversely, sometimes, it is better to assault. Either tac squads or guardians with flamers, for instance.
i never said you had to have groups of 20,groups of 10 are easier to hide but i find that groups of 12 are best
-A tau, dark eldar and slaanesh csm player
-And always on LO chat..
Kroot should always be used as a support unit for other units, put them in the aforementioned cover in front of 2 or 3 units of FW and a few things happen.Originally Posted by Sir_Prometheus
The Kroot force target priority tests, so help to stop the FW being shot.
Any opponent who knows Tau will know how dangerous the Kroot are when in cover, this means that they are wary of approaching them and will avoid them, this again helps to keep the FW out of danger and allows more time to shoot.
Kroot are amazingly effective when used to counter assault a unit already in CC with another Tau unit, and they can tie up dangerous units allowing redeployment of other units in safety.
Anyone who says Kroot are useless have no idea how to use them effectively they are not at heir best infiltrating or walking up the field and they definately are not speed bump suicide units,
I think point for point they are probaly the single most effective unit in the Tau list if used properly. I would not even contemplate a list without at least 18, oh and by the way no Shaper and no armour upgrade both useless.
Kroot infiltrating into the centre of the board will only give an opponent a speed boost, with an assault move, and then consolidation. It's usually not a good idea.
Kroot are taken to push infiltrators back, and then be used as a distraction. If they are alive at the end of one of my games, they're either scoring an objective, or I haven't used them right. In other words, the best way to use them usually involves losing them, but otherwise score with them.
I just played a game with a unit of 20 kroot. I got assaulted by 4 marines with bolters and 8 scouts. The kroot killed all the marines eventually, and all but 1 scout. So kroot are not bad in combat. They continued to get drawn combat. But they're not a combat unit, when the master came in I eventually lost all my kroot. You can try to use them as a combat unit, but it's much better to use them as a distraction, as a pillbox unit that sits in cover and shoots.
Btw, I was going to charge with the kroot, but it was tricky, I wouldn't have made it. I sat in cover and got I10 first round instead.
There is no point in getting 20 kroot. 10 Kroot are just as good, unless you get into combat. 10 kroot die easy, but the whole point of taking kroot is to die. They're disposable, their tactical advantages don't get any better the more kroot you have in a unit. Stick with units of 10.
I never saw anything in the codex about armor for kroot, and why wouldn't sharper be good for the squad?
I apologise if I made it sound like Kroot cant be used for infiltrating, they can as Oni has pointed out quite well, what I meant was they perform better as a large unit when used as I described and not infiltrating (inf with 20 Kroot is not easy).Originally Posted by onlainari
Kroot have two effective uses, I use the larger unit so I gave my input on that use, but Oni has given good input on the other use.
Use which ever suits your play style best cos they are both good.
I really do not agree with Onis contention that 20 Kroot dont have a point, I have used 20 for well over 200 hundred games and they always perform ALWAYS, so dont dismiss a large unit like that Oni, and by the way the whole point of Kroot is not to die far from it, they are a valuable asset that should be used tactically and not thrown away.
As for tactical advantage it depends on the scenario, try putting 20 Kroot on an Objective in take and hold for instance, that unit of 20 Kroot suddenly become a whole lot more usefull than 10, try counter assaulting with 10 then try it with 20 which do you think is more effective?, stop being so blinkered Oni.