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  1. #1
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    WBB with Necron Lord + Monolith questions

    1) Can a Necron Lord with Res. orb use the Monolith to reroll the WBB if he failed his first WBB roll?
    I recently fought against Blood Angels, and my Lord was killed with power weapons. He wasn't joined to another group and he failed his WBB roll. The Monolith was within 18" range, so could he have been teleportet through the Monolith and allowed an extra WBB roll, or does that only count if the Lord has joined a group of necron warriors etc?

    2) The GWs FAQ regarding the Monolith:
    "When attacking a Monolith, extra penetration dice and doubling scores are much the same thing - don't count any bonus penetration of any sort against a Monolith."
    Does this mean that powerfists weapons does not roll with strength 8 or 9 when hitting the Monolith but with the Marines basic strength 4?
    What about grenades, do they get their full dice rolls against Monolith?


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  3. #2
    Member Tdh6002's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by hauser
    1) Can a Necron Lord with Res. orb use the Monolith to reroll the WBB if he failed his first WBB roll?
    I recently fought against Blood Angels, and my Lord was killed with power weapons. He wasn't joined to another group and he failed his WBB roll. The Monolith was within 18" range, so could he have been teleportet through the Monolith and allowed an extra WBB roll, or does that only count if the Lord has joined a group of necron warriors etc?
    Yes, you could have teleported the lord through the monolith and get a extra WBB roll.

    Quote Originally Posted by hauser
    2) The GWs FAQ regarding the Monolith:
    "When attacking a Monolith, extra penetration dice and doubling scores are much the same thing - don't count any bonus penetration of any sort against a Monolith."
    Does this mean that powerfists weapons does not roll with strength 8 or 9 when hitting the Monolith but with the Marines basic strength 4?
    What about grenades, do they get their full dice rolls against Monolith?
    in the faq they say that extra penetration dice and doubling scores are much the same thing, that concludes me that powerfists do nog double there scores.
    (source: http://uk.games-workshop.com/chapter...s-faq-v4-0.pdf)
    A word of warning. The next time you get a strange unexplained reading on your Flagship's scanner and sensor arrays, don't dismiss it as a glitch or ghost. The Necrons are a real threat now, and they are out there, biding their time, waiting for you!

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    and Rending weapons do not get the additional dice either?

  5. #4
    Slave to the flesh The_Outsider's Avatar
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    nope, the monlith is really that tough.

  6. #5
    Senior Member Arizzar's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by Tdh6002
    in the faq they say that extra penetration dice and doubling scores are much the same thing, that concludes me that powerfists do nog double there scores.
    (source: http://uk.games-workshop.com/chapter...s-faq-v4-0.pdf)
    I disagree with your conclusion.

    This is a discussion of semantics that GW could have spared us by just making a simple list of what works and what does not.

    Here is the way I read the words.

    In practice, any weapon attacking the Monolith will roll for armour penetration using its unaugmented strength and a single D6 no matter what.
    (Emphasis mine)

    Notice the word "weapon". Any weapon attacking the monolith will use its unaugmented strength. As an example, a witchblade would attack the monolith with strength 3 instead of the usual strength 9 since the latter is achieved by multiplying the wielders strength.

    However, a powerfist grants the wielder double strength. So in effect a powerfist is a weapon wielded by a strength 8 marine. A powerfist is not a strength 8 weapon, it is a weapon wielded by a guy with twice his normal strength. A witchblade on the other hand is a strength 9 weapon wielded by a strength 3 guy. Since the witchblade has a modified strength against anything with an armor value (three times the wielders strength) it falls victim to the monolith's special rule regarding living metal.

    Similarly, a chainfist would still grant the wearer double strength against the monolith, but it would not gain the +1d6 bonus to armor penetration. A marine wielding a chainfist would thus "only" find himself attacking the monolith with str. 8 plus 1d6.

    If a powerfist worked by giving the wearer double strength when, and only when, penetrating vehicles it would also fall victim to the living metal special rule since it would then be a bonus to penetration.

    Also, I seem to recall a battlereport in WD where a dreadnought killed a monolith in cc. This would clearly not have been possible had the dreadnought been forced to use its unmodified strength of 6. But since it used a dreadnougth close combat weapon boosting its strength to 10 it was able to penetrate. I know the battlereports are not evidence per se, but it does add merit to my point by demonstrating that GW employees also follow the same logic.

    Now if they would only put it in writing so we would know for sure. It is frustrating that such important rules for both necron players and their opponents are so very unclear.

    Arizzar
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  7. #6
    Member Grand Master Halls's Avatar
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    i had always assumed that the monolith took a S8 hit from powerfists... o well...


    i have always played they are S 8 against the monolith. Thanks for making my future games THAT MUCH MORE COMPLICATED lol
    =][=

    GM HALLS

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    Slave to the flesh The_Outsider's Avatar
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    As I see it (now please note this is how I do things and do not wish to start the entire monolith debate) powerfists are strength 8 (well for a marine).

    As it says unaguamented strength for the weapon, powerfists and witchblades supplement the users's strength, they don't have a S value like say, a lascannon.

    So marines are S8 and witchblades make the wielder S9.

    Thats how I see things.

  9. #8
    Senior Member Arizzar's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by The_Outsider
    As it says unaguamented strength for the weapon, powerfists and witchblades supplement the users's strength, they don't have a S value like say, a lascannon.


    Thats how I see things.
    But, the witchblade does not give the user strength 9. Only when he tries to penetrate a vehicle does the weapon count as strength 9. Therefore I see a difference between the two, and thats why I think witchblades are negated by the monolith.

    Arizzar
    If the radiance of a thousand suns
    Were to burst at once into the sky,
    That would be like the splendor of the Mighty One...
    I am become Death,
    The shatterer of Worlds.

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    hmm, I still see the unaugmented part as the key. I just take the codex base value. So necrons, marines, and chaos normally hit the monolith on 6's and can't glance. The necrons have that nifty gauss rule and disruption fields that let them glance on a 6. So most of the time marines can only hurt the monolith with range weapons or some lucky rolls with melta bombs.

    So if a marine player really wants to have that S4 marine use its augmented strength (from a power fist) I would have to accept some deals.

    The reason I see power fists as a weapon that augments its users strength is because otherwise the marine would be S4. So if the only difference is the weapon he is equipped with, I would say the weapon is making him stronger. The dreadnought would not be able to kill that monolith, no matter how many cc weapons it has. Now if that dreadnought had a lascannon, that monolith better be careful.

    Arizzar. How is tripling the users strength and doubling the users strength different? (besides the end result) If the witchblade cannot be used as S9, why would the power fist be any different? Besides, the power fist is a weapon with machines in it that make a S4 marine into a S8 marine (double strength actually). A witchblade has something (I have yet to play or even look at an eldar codex) that makes the wielder triple their strength to make the end result.

    The_Outsider. I just looked up augment in a thesaurus. The #1 other word for augment is supplement. In my view it is essentially the same thing. While your welcome to play that way, make sure your opponents know and you both agree that witchblades can down a monolith with ease.

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    Quote Originally Posted by Arizzar
    I disagree with your conclusion.

    This is a discussion of semantics that GW could have spared us by just making a simple list of what works and what does not.

    Here is the way I read the words.

    (Emphasis mine)

    Notice the word "weapon". Any weapon attacking the monolith will use its unaugmented strength. As an example, a witchblade would attack the monolith with strength 3 instead of the usual strength 9 since the latter is achieved by multiplying the wielders strength...


    Arizzar
    Even though the powerfist is not a weapon (it's a kitchen utensil) I wouldn't give it S8, as the rule is worded. No CC weapons that can think of (notice, can think of..) has their own strength. They simply use that of the wielder. This would also includes the huge curling irons the S&M SoB wields. :rolleyes:
    "Come to the dark side! We have cookies!"

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