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I am playing my friend tommorow at Games Workshop for a prize, whoever loses buys the other any model so its kinda important for me not to lose. Anyway, I never fought orks before, all I know is he will be relying on large numbers and wartruks to get up close, he has no dreadnaughts or cannons, but I think he has a tuned up warboss retinue.
Any suggestions on how to beat him would be gratefull!!!
The friend I play with the most plays orks, and he's pretty good. The suggestions I have are; I'm not sure on your friends flavor of orks, but if he plays anything like my friend these tips should be helpful;
1) Use wyches, Wyches destroy orks in CC. first off, you out initiative them, easily. Secondly, they're not well armored, so, unlike dealing w/ MEQ's your regular wyches will actually do a lot of damage, as opposed to relying on the succubus. Third, they have either 3 str or 3 t, I forget which (the other is four), which means they don't wound you all that often, or you wound them more often. In either case, you're going to win CC against them, even against the nob squad and warboss retinue.
2) Splinter Cannons and mobile warriors (raider squads, etc...) are much better then dark lances most of the time. The orks don't have all that much armor, and if they do take power armor, they move d6 instead of 6 each turn (and its only the warboss/nobs that can take it). If he does that, focus a darklance from a raider on the warboss and kill. Also, you might be able to kill the warboss if its T is only four, not sure on that though, instantly with a DL.
3) Take out the trukk fast if he has anything in it, don't let it get across the map because you want to make sure you control the pace of the charge.
4) Their leadership is terrible, horrorfexing them would be pretty possible.
All in all if you meet his CC w/ your own CC (wyches mainly) you'll pretty much win everytime. Plus, unlike most MEQ's, you can EASILY beat them in a round of combat, and sweeping advance for a massacre. Because their init is so low, this is amazingly simple. If you do use any warriors, you're better off not making them stationary, and if you do make them stationary, guard them w/ some haemoncs w/ destructors or with a talos for counterassault, because if you leave your heavy weapons guys just sitting there, they're going to eventually charge and slaughter them.
I hope you still can get advice here before the battle. Orks have special rules based on squad size that prevent them from being pinned or falling back. They have the same basic strength as a normal dark eldar, but 1 more attack base and often have two weapons. They have the same toughness as a marine but the same armor as us, and are horrible at shooting (though quantity kind of makes up for quality). If you stand and shoot and while he approaches, then charge him when he gets close (destroying the trucks is probably the most important thing) you'll do good.
Everything I have told you, even this, is a lie.
If they're str 3, they'll only make an unsaved wound 1 out of 8 times against wyches (better if you end up w/ ws +1, cause then they'll be hitting only 1/3, wounding 1/2 , and you'll save 1/2, = 1/12 will be a kill). Since you deny them both weapons, it puts them down to two attacks. This means that every six guys in a squad will deal one unsaved wound to your wyches.
On the opposite side, you'll be hitting 2/3 the time, wounding 1/3, and they'll fail save 2/3's the time, meaning 4/27, or just about 1/7. You should, almost definately, be winning every close combat, and forcing them to take a ld or break. They can mob up, but they have to check 2d6 > squad size, and thats only going to get smaller as you beat on them more. Plus, since you'll strike first, even if they waaaagggh (it doubles their init, from 2to 4 usually), you'll be taking out some of their attacks before they even get a shot at you, swining the balance of any given round of assault in your favor. Plus, once you do cause them to break, the sweeping advance is almost guaranteed (which means..SLAVES, woot).
I'd say the biggst mistake you can make w/ wyches v. orks is letting them use burna boys to flame you, since that'll wipe out a wych squad fast, or letting them get the charge, since that extra attack per model will more or less equal one unsaved wound (they'll have probaly 10 - 15 models per squad). Their armor is terrible on their trukks, even their best armor i think is a battlewagon w/ 12 in the front, which means darklances will cut it like butter. But i'd definately have a warrior squad w/ some splinter cannons or some other way to put a few splinter cannong on the boards, because str 4 ap assault 4 = the bane of orks (they have almost nothing w/ a better then 5+ save, and anything that has better isn't worth the pts and will get destroyed by your CC squads).
I'd be careful taking any independant characters. Since orks go last in melee anyway, they tend to use powerfists, and if they mob an independant character, that powerfist will get 4ish attacks, and any one that is unsaved is going to be an insta kill, which means a pumped up archon that gets caught in melee for two rounds w/ a powerfisted ork is going to fail a save and instantly die, which is a huge point sink. You're best off not investing in anything that expensive (except maybe a talos if you like them)
I hope I'm not too late to give some advice.
I agree with ShadowcatX. You've got him bested in shooting with Splinter Cannons and Dark Lances, and you've got him bested in hand to hand with your Archon/Archite, Incubi and Wyches. But there's still a lot of greenskins to go through before you can claim victory.
I'd recommend hiding the hand to hand aspects of your army until you've dwindled him down with lots of shooting. And don't just stand there and shoot as he comes in. Set up far into your deployment zone (usually around 12"). Then on the first turn, whether you or he goes first, come to be just within 24" and fire your Splinter Cannons. Then when he advances, fall back some and shoot again with the Cannons. Only stand still and rely on Splinter Rifles when you begin to run out of room (should be around turn 3). Then when you are ready, pounce any survivors with the Wyches in Raiders.
Also, it is imperative that you kill any transport or bike unit first. You don't want him to outmanuever you or tie up lines of fire so you can't put the hurt on him from range before cleaning him up.
Use ravagers with disentegrators! As many as you have! Lances are good to have vs orks, as looted vehicles can be a pain, but remember that all other ork vehicles are open topped, which means that blast weapons will inflict two hits for every hit you get. A disentegrator ravager will absolutely devastate anything exept for that looted leman russ, that your lances woll be killing anyway. And thats not to mantion what 3 dissies can do to a mega armored warboss and his nobz retinue..
i play as orks and i can tell you our biggest weakness is our speed. take out our trukks and we gotta slog it all the way to your lines. our T is 4 so we arent very puny in CC. destroy the trukss with some dark lances and have plenty of splinter cannons to mow em down. orks are immune to psychology as long as there are 12 or more of them in a mob, so dont bother with the terrorfex. BEWARE THE HQ!! if it is 5 nobs and a warboss they will have 31 attacks on the charge! and they will most likely have 3+ armor saves. nobs have a S of 4 and 2 wounds each, they are things to be feared! take a couple of raiders with dark lances to take down trukks and then take a bunch of warriors with splinter cannons for taking down mobs. keep a unit of wyches in the back, to mop up the rest that get up close to you. hope this helps! good luck! your gonna need it! :shifty:
Technically on the nob squad you're better off using 3 dl's instead of 3 dissie ravagers (though due to other constraints practically the dissies might be better). The reason is the insta kill. Assuming the nob squad doesn't get T5, which i'm pretty sure they dont, the S8 attacks are much better then the S7 or S4. 3 DL shots, two will land both should wound, and both insta kill a two wound nob (4 "wounds" worth of damage done). Dissies, on the other hand, won't insta kill, and so you'd need at least 4 wounds to make them as good, which means starting with more shots (even the nine from one fully loaded ravager doesn't compare, it does on average 3 wounds) or hoping he sticks his models real close (if you use the blast template).
So, first off i'd suggest aiming darklances at those trukks but secondly aim them at the nob squad / warboss if he takes them. This is especially true if you've got enough splinter cannons to cover yourself against the other approaching orks.
Thanks to you all, best of luck to me, I am leaving like in 10 mins. Ow yeah, he IS using a looted leman russ. Dam, oh well, i think I'll get a few scourges or something.
Me be back with lots and lots of prisoners. It was a close one but i did it, my prize is a waveserpent conversion kit.:yes: Not exactly what I hoped for but its a good edition to my iyanden army. I roled to go first but he roled to chose sides, he deployed on cover which greatly helped his wartruks from being blown away with my lances on the first turn, I did as you said, aimed all lances at his transports, since he was in cover, I managed to take out 3 but the HQ one made it out alive.
1.)Ork warboss is a pain in close combat, he and his retinue were the only ones who got into CC but were stopped fairly quickly (Not until they anihilated 20 of my warriors)
2.)Ork wartruks are FAST, the need to be stopped on the 1st turn
3.)Looted IG vehicles are dangerous, the leman russ took my ravager out on the 1st turn
4.)Wyches own orks in CC, with a charge, they can take down an entire squad.
5.)Lastly large number of DE warriors are extremely effective in killing low armored opponents, his boyz had to walk across the open field in order to get into CC, I used hit and run, VERY efective. Move back and shoot