Welcome to Librarium Online!
im rather new to this game but obtained an army from a friend that didnt play anymore
we generally play about 750pt games sometimes more
3 crisis suits
2 stealth suits + 1 leader
1 deamon prince
5 plague bearers
9 plague marines
1 jugg. of khorne
5 man havock squad
once we tweak down to an equal pt lvl and otherwise equal stuff
i keep getting pwnd on all angles. the kroots get chewed up
he sits back and shells me with his heavy weapons and kills me for a while
as a general rule i roll really really really ****ty
terminators with a 2+ save just completely rape me.
so i have set up some questions
#1 twin link on crisis yes or no. if i do then i usually will hit one of them
im usuing the plasma guns if i dont i will get more shots and still hit 50% but still have the possibility of hitting more. if twin linked i have no possibility of hitting more than 1 shot at 50%
#2 kroots are sucking at h2h attacking last getting chewed up to whle trying to get into h2h
#3 im having trouble killing the terminotors with anything but the crisis suits(or tank if we play with tanks usually do not)
#4 any ideas on where i should deploy in relation to where he deploys
#5 going first seems to be rediculously overpowered in this game
#6 my units always most always end up breaking even with aun'shi reroll
#7 i cant even pretend to kill any h2h unit he throws at me unless it dies b4 it makes it to me or i break and run back farther than he does and get to turn back and fire all out on it
#8 the heavy support havoks eat me up with rockets and lascannons from afar
#9 the vast majority of his stuff is fearless or has a leadership of 10 / 11 hard to break
#10 the game is fun to play but ive won 1 game out of about 15 need some better strategy
#11 what am i doing wrong... besides everything it seems
110 - Daemon Prince (+85) Wings (+10) [12â€? assault, ignore intervening
terrain], Mark of Nurgle (+10) [+1 T], Spiky bits (+5) [Re-roll one missed H2H
100 - 5 CSMs (+75) AC (+15), Heavy Bolter (+5), P.P. (+5), Mark of Chaos
Undivided (re-roll Ld tests).
75 â€“ 5 Plaguebearers (+75) Must be summoned.
210 â€“ 5 Terminators (+180) AutoCannon (+20), Combi-Flamer (+2), Combi-Meltagun
(+3), 2 Twin-linked bolters (free), Power fist (+5) [Doubles userâ€™s strength,
ignoures armour saves, user attacks last in H2H].
186 â€“ 9 Plague Mar. (+180) Plasma Gun (+6). Plague knives (free) [When
wounding, roll a d6, on a roll of 6 itâ€™s an insta-kill].
45 â€“ Jugg. Of Khorne (+45) Must be summoned.
Total - 726
105 â€“ Aunâ€™Shi [Str. 5] [Auto wound on 6 when rolling to hit.] [EMP &
Photon grenades] [All tau units may reroll leadership tests, is he is attached
to a squad they become fearless and get +1 I & A] [If he dies every tau unit
must take a Morale check ath the START of their NEXT turn if not in close
combat or already falling back.]
142 â€“ Fire warriors 12 warriors (+120), leader (+10) [LD 8], photon grenades
130 â€“ Kroots 13 kroots (+91), leader (+21), pulse rifle (+5), armor (+13) [Sv
6+, Ld 8]. Infiltration (if no Krootox). Jungle bonuses, pursuit penalties.
164 â€“ Crisis Suits 2 suits (+60), 2 shield generators (+40) [4+ invul. Sv], 4
plasma rifles (+64). Jetpack.
90 â€“ Stealth Suits 3 suits (+90), Infiltration, Stealth [2d6 x 3 to see them]
96 â€“ Gun Drones 8 drones (+96). Ld Disabilitity, twin linked weapons causing
pinning test. Jetpack.
Total â€“ 727
sry for the long post
but please help bc i wana get better and getting pwnd isnt helping my moral.
One question--what kind of terrain are you guys using? Your kroot should be in that terrain so they don't get shot at and so they go first in CC, all all your other stuff should be at least trying to hide behind something so they don't get shot to pieces round #1. Oh, and that nasty, scary havoc? Take your hammerhead, give it a railgun, and watch him cry like a baby. A strength 10 AP 1 weapon is a almost guarenteed tank buster.
Oh, and you can't post specific stats--against forum rules. You can say the unit's total point cost, but anything else (upgrade costs, unit stats, etc.) can't be posted. Just letting you know...
5th? Cool. WotLK? Also cool.
Jesus no wonder your getting pawned, your totaly outclassed, you have 2 XV8's that can kill termies with 1 shot a turn, you need to rethink the list fast.Originally Posted by mr t the h
1 Take XV8 as HQ lose Aun shi, take 2 Shas'els with fusion and plasma and multis, thats 3 shots at BS4 each for 6 AP1 and AP2 shots per turn, bye bye termies.
2 Take a Hammerhead, lose the Stealths 3 are crap anyway and will do nothing against his list, take an Ion cannon it will be more usefull against this list, target his DP with it, and then hit the Marines.
3 Use the Drone squad to protect one of the Shas'els and concentrate on the termies.
4 The Kroot should always be in cover preferably close to the Fire Warriors, use the Kroot shooting and only assault with them if desperate, use the Kroots cover advantages in woods and let them get assualted in cover if possible, if the FW get assualted counter assualt with the Kroot, DO NOT instigate an assault with Kroot unless your desperate, they do not perform well in a CC attacking role.
5 Use the Tau mobility, use the XV8's and Drone squad to take out the termies and Jump shoot jump them and then use them to harrass the Marine squads, give the HH multi and move it 12" every turn, target the DP with it and even if it gets caught the DP needs 6's to even hit it, use the Shas'els if in range to take wounds from the DP.
6 If the DP has no invulnerable save hit it with the Shas'Els and Ion cannon straight away, it will die quick and then you can take your time with the Termies.
7 FW set them up as far away as possible and use the 30" range of the Pulse rifle, set up Kroot close enough to move into asssualt range if needed.
8 The Kroot, lose the shaper take 3 more Kroot instead, lose the save they dont need it if in cover, take 2 units of 10 or a unit of 20. You say the Kroot are sucking in CC well thtas because they are not a CC assault unit they perform best using their strengths (cover and shooting) so use the strentghs if they keep getting pawned in CC learn from it and dont do it.
9 FW lose the photons if your assualted your dead so why waste points.
10 Use mobility, use the Jump shoot Jump of the XV8's and Drones, use the 12" move of the HH, move the FW if needed, when the DP has gone you can out manovoeur the slow Marines, if he DS your FW pour fire into them next turn. Target the unit he uses to summon the Juggernaught and plague bearers as quick as possible.
Use cover as much as possible, use the JSJ to keep the XV8 and Drones safe, put the FW in cover and give them some extra survivability from shooting and the opportunity to strike first in CC if caught.
He is low in actual numbers on the table 1st couple of turns so use this to your advantage, take down the Prince and then target one unit till its dead (termies 1st).
2 Shas'Els with Fusion, Plasma and Multi. 83pts
1 Drone Squad 96pts
1 Unit of FW with Shas'Ui and no photons all with rifles. 130pts
1 Unit of kroot 20 strong or two units of 10 (no shaper, no armour). 140pts
1 HH with Ion, BC and Multi and decoys 145pts
Now some of these point values may be a bit off (I am at work so doing this from memory) but that totals around about 677 points, your taking 721 that leave 44 points, I would take another XV8,s with plasma, Fusion and Multi for 63pts , lose 3 Kroot to take the extra XV8 you need the low AP XV8's and HH you dont stand a chance without em.
By the way if your opponent moans about taking the HH tell him you will lose it if he loses the Daemon prince cant believe he actually enjoys playing you, the game is about fun and taking a maxed out (really quite cheesy) force like he has to a 700 pt game is just not fun or terribly sporting, 3 XV8's and an Ion HH is quite acceptable in 1000pt games so should be ok here.
Hope this helps and your results improve, but make sure you take the XV8's and Ion cannon and lose Aun Shi to many points sunk into one pretty much useless model.
what should the crisis be equipped with
now they have 2 plamsa rifles and a shield gen.
24 inch range thats 4 shots 4+ to hit 2+ to kill a terminator?
fusion doesnt seem like a very good choice since i have to be in such close range to use it?
and u dont like the stealth suits? they have been outstanding against CSMs and deamons thats 9 shots 4+ hit 4+ kill and with jetpacks move shoot move i can keep them out of his sight range. averaging 21inches i think they have really owned up to their pts by killing havoks and CSMs and plagebearers and i think a terminator ONCE!! and the infiltration is nice to get in behind his force right in the area to shell his troops.
the crisis have been getting instantkilled to much. ?
55% of his army are elites....
34% of my army are elites.... (pt value)
25% of his army are troops...
37% of my army are troops...
is it suppose to be that way?
Maybe its just me, but most of that list isn't legal right now.... It looks like your friend is using the old 3rd edition codex. In the new one, a lot of the pionts are different, your opponent can't take Juggernauts as a fast attack, I think plague marines are more expensive, the daemon prince would likely be more expensive, the CSM unit I'm pretty sure would be more points, etc. This list definately is not 4th edition legal. I wonder why no one else has noticed this is using the old codex....Originally Posted by mr t the h
If I were you, I'd tell the friend to get the new Chaos Space Marine book. Your using a legal list and he isn't- not exactly fair, is it? Several weapons are now more expensive to take so you might stand a better chance if he uses the current codex.
As for the elites vs troops thing, troops are often some of the best units to have. Take a crap load of fire warriors and start watching him fail his saves to the onslaught of cheap, s5 firepower. Take some better marine killer crisis (the plas/fusion ones) and see his termy unit bite the dust in a turn or two. Good luck.
One last note: Having 2 of the sam weapons makes them twin linked, not double the shots.
Last edited by Phalanx; February 28th, 2006 at 21:27.
40K armies: Tyranids (2001), Space Wolves (2008), Sisters of Battle (2011)
Current Rep: 1337
You get one shot per suit with a reroll, you do not get 4 shots(check your codex) plasma only gets 2 shots at 12" if you have 2 Plasma on the suit its classed as twin linked not as two seperate weapons, the range of fusion is 12" same as rapid fire plasma, so thats 3 shots at 12" at BS4 with no armour saves, the range is not a problem 12" plus 6" assault move puts plenty of distance between the slow marines and the XV8's. Fusion is a brilliant choice against any 3+ save army.Originally Posted by mr t the h
Stealths are ok just not in teams of 3 they are to easy to reduce and each loss means 3 shots gone, most of the Marines get a save with 9 shots thats 4 hits average at 4+ to wound means 2 wounds if your lucky with a save you will be lucky to kill one marine and termies well you said it yourself (one kill wow) with the XV8 Fu/PL/ multi you will kill 2 or 3 a turn hit on 3+ and wound on 2+ no armour save and termies get a 5+inv, do the math.
You do not want to be infiltrating with Stealths when you have a DP with flight, if you must infiltrate use the Kroot in two teams of 10 they will do much better and are just as good at shooting.
I have played marines for years with Tau, my list is tuned to take them down, but its only advice dude if you wanna ignore it its up to you.
if your XV8's are getting insta killed well thats why I advised taking Shas'Els they are ind charac so cannot be targeted if they are near another unit, so use the rule, also use the drones as a circular screen for one of the Shas, it makes him immune to targeting. use the jump shoot jump to use cover shoot and then jump behind it, if your stealths are doing so well with it use the same tactic for the XV8. Keep the XV8,s near a unit of Kroot or the drones or FW and they will be immune to shooting, use common sense and tactics, I have not lost a Shas'O or El for god knows how long, normal XV8's yeah but Shas no they have to many advatages to be lost easily.
Last edited by Rikimaru; March 1st, 2006 at 00:56.
my codex is fairly new
his is many years old.
hopefully a bunch of his **** got nerfed
played a 1000pt game last night
and got really good starting position and also got to go first
turn 1 me- killed 2 terminators, 3CSMs and broke them off the table, and a havock.
him- killd a kroot
i thought i had him pwnd from here on OR so i thought
turn 2 me - i killed 1 raptor(with a drone) and a havock(with a krootox) he made all of his saves from 24 firewarrior shots and i think i killed a plague marine with crisis suits
turn 2 him -he killed 3stealth suits and 2 crisis suits(autocannon, lascannon, plasmapistol) and assulted a gurndrone squad with raptors and broke them off the table
now im pwnd and it was true
to add insult to injury
(during one of my armor saves i had 9 hits to save on a a 4+) and i rolled 9 dice
and my total from rolling 9 dice was "11" rolling like that im ****ed
i did eventually get assulted by a deamonprince& a jugg. of khorne into my kroot squad at the same time and he rolled horribly and only wounding a krootox my turn to attack i kill his deamon prince & jugg. of khorne
its happend twice now that the krootoxes have just pwnd down the deamon price BAAAAADDD when he gets into h2h
i keep reading on these forums dont use the krootoxes?
they seem to be one of the tau's better h2h fighters not to mention the long range gun that can shell them down as u get approached
Krootox totally defeat the purpose of kroot, though. While that big gun is somewhat scarey, it is just as strong as a missile pod. The kroot gun, however, is rapidfire and cannot use its range on the move, prevents the squad from infiltrating, and, until the new codex comes out, takes up a heavy support slot. Take more suits, take more tanks, trust me on this, leave the krootox home. They suck.