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to be flexable against ANY army, what is the proper attire for a DE HQ? not worrying about points too much, and perhaps adding to the original set up (shadowfield, combat drugs, agoniser, sp...) what else makes the lord more adaptable?
for example, i read somewhere that giving the archon both an agoniser and poisen blades is a good strategy. i know you cant use both in the same assult, but this way the archon can fight against a hive tyrant on one turn (using the agoniser), and on another turn, help support against gaunts (using the poisen blades). stuff like that
this question can also apply to retinues. whats a versitle retinue squad?
I just lovely my agoniser armed Archon aka standard issue archon.
the punisher + drugs + animus vitae + t-helm + shadowfield is also a fun thing and about as flexible.
As for retinue goes I never take incubi. I find that archon with any config + sybarite with agoinser + pistol + warriors to give the unit some extra meat works much better.
Incubi only slow mr Archon down as they cannot FoF.
""What's the matter? Don't ya like clowns? Don't we make ya laugh?" - Captain Spaulding.
If you're going to take Incubi at all, it would probably be best to put them with the Dracon, leaving the Archon free.
Why do the survivors remain anonymous -- as if cursed -- while the dead are revered? Why do we cling to what we lose while we ignore what we still hold?
Name none of the fallen, for they stood in our place, and stand there still in each moment of our lives.
--Duiker, "Deadhouse Gates"
Yes, I agree. I think incubi are effective against power armor armies - kind of a waste otherwise.Originally Posted by Ostsol
The Dracon doesnt even need a shadowfield right? Can he be picked out in a retinue?
Yes, that dracon can be picked out...unless one does some rules lawyering about a detail of the codex DE retinue rules.
For that reason the dracon should be kept fairly cheap, just an agonizer and not even drugs. Personally i even have considered not giving that dracon any weapons, as for the cost of that agonizer alone i can almost get another incubus. And if one wants a high initiative IC killer, one can use drazhar.
how about a retinue with a dracon, 3-5 incubi, and two warriors with cannons? this seems more flexible as it can soften up the target before assulting them
Those warriors cost 18 points each - they very rarely kill that many points (against MEQs, else there is little point in using incubi) before you hit close combat. And once you're in close combat they die quickly and can make you lose the combat...which can end badly.
Personally I find this set up to be the most advantageous as it allows you to fire on the charge and 8 shots are nothing to be sniffed at even against MEQ, they also give your incubi squad good long range fire for when fighting things like tyranids, which Incubi also work well aginst (against tyranid warriors and otehr things with 4+ in that army anyway.) I also prefer to give the dracon in that squad a punisher and drugs, allowing her to kill all the models in her kill zone usually, if you place the cahrge correctly, and thus not recieve any replies, the warriors are fairly useless once in close combat, but they are two extra attacks which have the advantage that after you destroy something in clsoe combat they can then attack again.Originally Posted by kabal of the darken blade
Those 8 shots taken on the way in often pay for the warriors carrying hte cannons on their own, especially combined with the fact that you can often get tow rounds of shooting in as the enemy start off at range, those 8 shots have a reasonable chance of killing a terminator if you fire them at one (around 1/3) and killing a termie more than pays for the warriors. Against marines they are even more likely to wound (around 2/3) so these warriors can easily pay for themselves, obviously against tyranids and similar foes they are of far greater benefit and in a list designed to fight any foe I would always advocate adding them.
I do however agree with others on the idea of keeping hte archon seperate and using it as a character hunter. (A wyche Dracite is also good in this role for a few less points)
A sinlgle splinter cannon volley in average kills 0.44 marines or 0.22 terminators. That's 6.66 points or 8 points respectively, from a model that costs 18 points. So it needs three rounds of shooting to get its points back, in average. That's not going to happen.
I still advocate this HQ in an all comers army, they are far less effective against MEQ than they are against other armies, but they are not wasted, you do not kill your average number you either kill a terminator or you don't you don't kill 0.22 terminators, thats not how it works which is why I quote the approximate probability instead of the average kill rate. The approximate probability of a kill on a terminator with two rounds of shooting is 50%, so thats a 50% chance of them making their points back with that shooting if aiming at terminators, furthermore as preciously stated it is easier to kill marines because of their lower armour saves, the calculations of the probability of killing two marines (about the same price as those two warriors with cannons) is a bit too complicated for the last five minutes of my lunch break, but suffice to say it is better than a 50% chance with two rounds of shooting, which in my experience is about what you recieve in the game. Due to the small number of only 8 shots per round the averages are in this case misleading. Yes there is a chance they won't earn their points back, but their is a greater or equal chance that they will.
And as I was saying earlier they add versatility as well allowing you to play defnsively if need be (I don't mean staticly before anyone complains). This works well against nids and orcs as well as some assault oriented MEQs and even eldar, its not how most people feel DE should run but it is highly effective therefore if your list can quickly switch from offence to defence then you have an advantage as you will be competitive whomever you play.