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Can somebody answer that question? I have seen the Tau codex and pirhanas just look totally useless to me. They have a burst cannon and drones for quite a few points and horrible armor. They lack firepower and staying power. I can see people bringing land speeders because assault cannons are vicious, but I simply do not understand why Pirhanas exist. Are they just supposed to carry seeker missiles? Is there only purpose "to capture objectives" like it says on the site? I just don't get it. If I want burst cannons, I would bring stealths for half as much. If I want seeker missiles I could just put them on my tanks and transports. I don't even use seekers to begin with, let alone bring pirhanas just for them.
I suppose it depends on the list taken, with a Fusion, two gun Drones and two seekers and the ability to move 12" and still fire its weapon and the ability to move 24" if needed, I can see the Pirahna being very usefull, its cheap enough to take a couple and if as you say the perception is they are not that good then that means your opponent wont see em as a threat until they fusion a tank.Originally Posted by ITDP
The fact it can take fusion and two drones plus seekers hardly makes it underpowered, especially when guided by a Markerlight, it will excell at outflanking units and kiling things like Dreads, predators etc, it will also be good for taking out those annoying Basilisks etc, the ones that hide at the furthest point of the opponents board edge.
No I think it will have its uses and should not be dismissed out of hand. You also have to remember its a skimmer and as such will survive reasonably well if used properly.
The thing I like about them is they are fast attack, which means they are usually placed last, which means they will be very good for deflecting attacks from things like Scouts or that Daemon prince who is very close, it also means they can be positioned to take out that pesky Basilisk as I pointed out earlier. The simple fact of having a unit that can destroy armour on the first turn is a valuable asset to the Tau.Originally Posted by MiketehFox
It also means the vehicle dilution effect is even greater which means those valuable HH last longer. I am contemplating 3 HH and 3 Pirahnas with a DF in 200pts.
Dont ever underestimate the value of taking objectives, the Pirahna's can in effect take 3 objectives(if 3 FA choices are taken) or at least contest them, with that 24" move they will be able to cover most of the field on that last turn.
I will give them some serious consideration I like the fusion and Seeker set up, makes them capable of hurting anything.
Well, I plan on fielding some piranahs. They fill a very critical gap; a fast skimmer in the Tau's arsenal. 70 points a piece for my type of set-up; fusion blaster, 2 gun drones, and decoy launchers. I could see them as very critical units for taking down enemy units that either hide (basilisks, mortars) or enemies that just hang in the back (devastators, etc). They're less risky than a deep-striking twin-fusion blaster set-up on a crisis suit, cost barely more, but can sweep to objectives in the last turn.
Remember, its armor may not seem that high, but keep in mind that Land Speeders have even worse armor. It isn't about the armor value, it is about the number of vehicles and the fact that they're skimmers. Plus they don't look too threatening...until you're 17" from a landraider and suddenly sweep within 6". Not many tanks can survive that sort of damage, let alone it being from several.
I plan on including them in my static tau. Static Tau always has some mobility in it, just because a line of defense does no good if it doesn't have adaptability to where the enemy is attacking. Piranahs can kill those pesky basilisks and tanks that my precious broadsides can't see; I'm not sacrificing the drones to protect them in order to give them an A.S.S. [slow and purposeful]. Piranahs do it much better anyway, and they can easily grab any objectives that static tau have difficulty claiming.
Plus, wouldn't it be fun to field 15 of them in one Chart? Mechanized Tau from hell!
If assault cannons are the only thing that redeem speeders, why are there other configs available for speeders? Why does the codex bother to list other choices?Originally Posted by ITDP
I think there are a couple issues at play here:
1) Not everybody uses the same playstyle, so your junk might be someone else's favorite unit. I can see how a couple piranhas with fusion would be a better tank hunter than a stealth team with fusion or, on a cover-heavy table, maybe even better than a railhead.
2) Different threats require different approaches. Stingwings are effective anti-MEq and pathfinders are effective anti-infantry or in combination with seeker missiles, but the piranha seems like the best anti-armor fast attack choice available.
The codexes list a lot of choices to accomodate many playstyles and tactics. Of course there will be a "best" (read: most point-efficient) unit in each list and org slot, but that doesn't make the weaker choices crap in all circumstances vs. all opponents.
So what you are basically saying is that the Pirhana has no purpose with its default gun and is only useful if you give it two seeker missiles or hide it until the end and dash out to an objective?
I rarely play any missions with objectives, but that is just a personal thing. Though, really, how many games involve objectives and will the crappily armored Pirhana really survive 6 turns?
Another thing, is the only effective Pirhana one with an upgraded weapon, seeker missiles, and vehcicle uprgades? That is almost a hundred points for 1 (one) short range shot that can do anything, two gun drones (woo-hoo), and two seeker missiles you can use once each. I do not get it. If I want seeker missiles, which I really don't, I would put them on something else, like a hammerhead. If I want to kill a tank, I would shoot it with a suit or tank or something. Even if a dev squad shoots at them, most of the time, my goal is to give them nothing to shoot at. Without Pirhanas, they wouldn't be shooting at anything.
But look at how many points it is just for the normal burst cannon Pirhana. It gets to move 12" and shoot. Ok, stealth suits move 12" between shots and cost half as much.
Let's see...general advantages of each...for these, I consider 2 pulse carbine shots (pinning) and 3 burst cannon rounds roughly equal. Now for the adv.:
- 12" move and shoot
- 3 shots + 2 shots that causes pinning
- Can move 24" in one turn
- Ability to hold Seeker Missiles, if need be.
- Ability to get a 1:1 fusion/reg. shots in a unit (1 fusion shot, 2 pulse carbine shots)
Stealth Suits Advantages:
- 6" move and shoot, 6" move after shot
- 3 shots each (2 suits per piranah)
- Stealth suit shield generator
- Ability to infiltrate
- Ability to get a 2:1 fusion/reg. shots in a unit (1 fusion shot, 6 burst cannon shots)
Now, let's think about each's survivability:
Piranah: It is difficult to compare a vehicle and an infantry model, so I'll try to convert the Piranah's statistics to an infantry's model:
Basically T6 side/rear armor and T7 side/rear armor (S4 'wounds'/'glances' on a 6, S6 'wounds'/'glances' on a 4+ against Armor Value 10.). Once glanced, the vehicle has basically a 3+ invulnerable save (only 1/3 of the time the vehicle will be destroyed, and you will always have that roll). Even better, if your enemy rolls a 5, it is re-rolled if you have the decoy launchers. If you want to get into nitty gritty with vehicle squadron rules, only on a roll of a 1 or 2 will the vehicle be basically unscathed (on a 3, it can't move - it is abandoned so the squadron can move. On a 4, it loses its most valuble weapon. On a 5 or 6 the vehicle is destroyed), so it is basically a 5+ invulnerable save at worse. Does that make sense?
Piranah's stats in the worse, infantry terms: T6, W1, and a 5+ invulernable save.
Stealth Suits: Compare that to the stealth suits. With the same points invested, the stealth suit gets 2 wounds (unable to insta-kill). With a lower toughness and not an invulnerable save, they don't seem as survivable. But they do have a stealth field generator, which can really help. So, compare the state line in the codex (I'm not going to break copyright), and think about it a bit.
Wrapping it up (my opinions):
Piranah - The piranah is useful for making the most of fusion blasters and anti-tank compared to stealth suits (who can only give one to one in 90pts, while the piranah can get one in every 60pts). They are quite useful for objective grabbers, and have a bit more survivability when shot at, which they need since anywhere on the field probably can hit a squad. For taking up a usually un-used Fast Attack slot, they aren't bad and can be quite adaptable.
Stealth Suits - The Stealth suit is quite good at defending themselves. They don't scream across the board and risk themselves often, so they are effective at holding a single part of the board, but are limited to that. They survive very well, seeing how few things can hit them. They are quite the ground-holder, but they take up a valuble elite slot. Crisis Suits are all the more deadly with so many new weapons (and some weapons made useful *coughflamercough*). They still are quite good, but the piranah is better for adaptable firepower.
CleanseOriginally Posted by ITDP
Secure and Control
Take and Hold
Thats 3 out of 5 missions requiring you to capture a point or table quarter. :yes: More than half.
Last edited by krosanreaper; March 15th, 2006 at 22:18.
The Tyranid torpedo? Its a giant facehuger cannon. It fires an army of facehugers at the other ships. It should cause fear.
Another thing to consider with the basic setup.. 5 strength 5 shots against rear armour could actually be more likely to pop a tank than your one shot fusion and 2 drone shots. Factor in the extended range, and its ability to probably get an angle on rear armour most of the time due to its fast vehicle nature.. I think a basic pirahna is well worth the points and will be a great tool in the tau arsenal. Additionally when that tank is dead, it can go back to killing infantry just as effectively. Seems good all round to me.
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