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  1. #1
    LO Zealot mephistophales's Avatar
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    shooty armies and the first turn

    I have a friend who plays Iron Warriors and I also play another person who has tau. It seems to always come down to who gets first turn.

    Sure, terrain has some effects, but the iron warriors player infiltrates all of his marines within range of autocannons. Either I get first turn and chew him up or he lets loose with autocannons on his first turn.

    As for the tau, we blow each other's heavy supports to pieces with railguns first turn (it's hard to stay out of los of a railhead), which seals it for one side.

    Does anyone have any ideas on how to overcome the huge advantage one player gains between shooting armies? Other than the obvious implications of terrain.

    win/draw/loss
    76/13/4

    Ask yourself why in the world would you trust a win loss record? Playing them yourself is the only way to tell.

    The true joy in the game is playing down to the last model, no matter the odds.

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    I have to say that the only way is to take advantage of your terrain rules.

    Now because you have no MC (I think) and everyone can shoot under your tanks, it is hard to go for that approach.

    Getting your tanks so they are obscured is very valuable, it can save you from harmful things, or at least preoccupy your opponent.

    Making a fast and hard to hit strike force is another option. getting a bunch of mobile suits and firewarriors is always good. You could ignore the tank you could get and focus on more numerous small thinks.

    Another option is to have sacrificial devil fishes. Keep them as cheap as possible and move them in front of your troops to look like they are going to rush. they get hit and you have instant terrain. Not the best way to do things, but it is a possibility.

  4. #3
    LO Zealot archonofdeath's Avatar
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    You think that's bad? I used to play AC. 4 Leman Russ sending out Ordnance weapons in 3rd edition in the first turn can decimate almost any army, especially one heavy on infantry. I once took on a friends Tyranids and in the first turn took out 3 units of gaunts and nearly killed his hive tyrant with heavy bolters and autocannons (I belive that was it).

    Yes, shooty armies in 40k can be a very very powerful force and can almost win the game in the first turn.

    As for how to stop this from happening... Um... keep everything you have at their maximum range and try taking things with as long of range as you can have.
    A youth with his first cigar makes himself sick; a youth with his first girl makes other people sick. - Mary Wilson Little

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    Member Sandro17's Avatar
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    Try Luring him in I mean your weapons as a Tau Do have higher range than Iron Warriors like a squad of Broad Sides They have one shot per turn but if they hit his Defilers or even his Havoc squads their dead. And because he is an Iron warrioirs Player chances are he's going to be stocked up with vehicles.

    Also Some battle suits are good with an armor save of 3+ Those Autocannons would not have such an easy time chewing them to bits. Besides you can move out of cover shoot and move back in.

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    I have a few ideas to make it more interesting. I'd say pick one or two (if you have all of these, it would make it way too boring):

    - Add a lot more cover. I mean, a lot. Make direct LOS from one side of the board in 3 or 4 areas tops.

    - Have a lot more terrain in the middle given as area terrain with level 2 and 3, preventing most or all things from seeing over it. It causes more movement towards the middle and less pure destruction first turn.

    - Play more objective-centered games, such as a defensive/offensive mission with some escalation. Or just play omega level missions to prevent such first-turn carnage.

    - If you feel really risky, limit the FOC to 1 HQ, 4 (or 6) Troops, 2 Fast Attack, 2 Elites, and 1 Heavy Support. Cuts down a lot of the big guns that obliterate first turn.

  7. #6
    Senior Member The Salmon Thief's Avatar
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    Infiltrate/ deepstrike more stuff.
    Gloria Imperator, The Firstborn Stand!
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    LO Zealot mephistophales's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by Sandro17
    Try Luring him in I mean your weapons as a Tau Do have higher range than Iron Warriors like a squad of Broad Sides They have one shot per turn but if they hit his Defilers or even his Havoc squads their dead. And because he is an Iron warrioirs Player chances are he's going to be stocked up with vehicles.

    Also Some battle suits are good with an armor save of 3+ Those Autocannons would not have such an easy time chewing them to bits. Besides you can move out of cover shoot and move back in.
    Well like I said he infiltrates almost his entire army, short of tanks, so that's within autocannon range. And he runs 1 predator and 1 rhino at most. sometimes just a predator. everything else infiltrates. I cut him to pieces or he cuts me to pieces first turn.

    And as for terrain, I agree but I mentioned that in the first post. I know how to use terrain correctly, i'm just trying to think of other ways to offset it.

    Deep striking would work, but that'd still leave hammerheads and devilfish in shooting range if they got the first turn ( I know, I know hide them behind terrain, but it just depends on the map).
    Last edited by mephistophales; March 14th, 2006 at 06:27.
    win/draw/loss
    76/13/4

    Ask yourself why in the world would you trust a win loss record? Playing them yourself is the only way to tell.

    The true joy in the game is playing down to the last model, no matter the odds.

  9. #8
    Senior Member The Celestial's Avatar
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    I know you said ignoring terrain and everyone else has already said use terrain but...uh.....

    Use terrain! !

    That's the only way possible that you can insure that you aren't ripped to bits if you don't get first turn. The exception to this is guess weapons, but those rarely pop up. Hide everything and keep things out of range.

    Now you said he inflitrates, well just inflitrate right back at him. Put some Kroot in cover down before he can to ensure that he keeps 12-18 inches away from your lines. Stealth teams can inflitrate and freak out enemy commanders, especially soft IG troop commanders.

    Now if you're playing another Tau commander(I've only done that once, myself), yes, obviously it's going to be a messy firefight with very little units left by turn 4 or so. Railguns are tough, but Hammerheads are tough as well. That one game I played, our hammerheads danced around each other all game until I took his down on the fifth turn. Just because he sinks your Railhead doesn't mean his has free reign over the bored if you're smart. Hide some pirannas back at your line and rush them foward if that happens. DS some SunForge suits. Hop some stealths with fusion blasters over to it. The Railgun is not our only armor-killer.

    Depending on the rules, but nightfight or reserves can cut down on major first turn losses as well.

    Record as of 26 December for my Static Tau Cadre.
    10 wins, 0 losses, and 1 draw.
    Last game: Victory over Necron in a 600 point "kill em all" that lasted til turn 10 ending with a phase out.

  10. #9
    Member krosanreaper's Avatar
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    If you’re just not having fun because of the firs turn carnage escalation can change the way the game plays.

    Personally one of my favorite scenarios to play.

    Tough many players don’t like the rules for it.
    Lurker extraordinaire

    The Tyranid torpedo? Its a giant facehuger cannon. It fires an army of facehugers at the other ships. It should cause fear.

  11. #10
    Mr. Tau onlainari's Avatar
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    My last 2 games have been against Iron Warriors.

    1500 Iron Warriors:
    Lord - bolt pistol, frags, dark blade, aura, flight, mutation, resilience 147

    3 Oblits 210
    2 Oblits 140
    8 Possessed - talons 216

    8 Marines - MoCU, AC with pfist&d.mutation, bp&ccws 158
    6 Marines - MoCU, lascannon, plasmagun 115
    6 Marines - MoCU, Autocannon, plasmagun 110

    8 Havocs - MoCU, 4 ML, tankhunters 224
    8 Havocs - MoCU, 4 HB 180

    1500 Tau:
    Shas'el - twinlinked plasma, missile, hardwired multi 97

    Crisis - twinlinked missile, array 53
    4 Stealths 120
    4 Stealths 120

    12 Fire Warriors in Devilfish - sms, decoys, multi, array, charger 250
    12 Fire Warriors in Devilfish - sms, decoys, multi, array, charger 250
    10 Kroot 70
    10 Kroot 70

    Pirana - fusion blaster, array 70
    Pirana - fusion blaster, array 70

    Railhead - sms, decoys, multi, lock, charger 190
    Ionhead - burst, decoys, multi, charger 140

    It was secure and control gamma, I win by about 800vps after scoring 2 tokens and contesting the other 2. I chose to go second, most of my stuff was hiding.

    1500 Iron Warriors:
    Lord - bolt pistol, spiky bits, dark blade, flight, mutation, resilience 141

    Oblit 70
    Oblit 70
    8 Possessed - talons 216

    8 Marines - MoCU, AC with pfist&mutation, 2 pp, bp&ccws 178
    9 Marines - MoCU, AC with p.sword&strength, heavy bolter, plasmagun 178
    6 Marines - MoCU, lascannon, plasmagun 115

    8 Havocs - MoCU, 2 AC, 2 HB, tankhunters 214
    Chaos Dreadnought - twinlinked autocannon, mutated hull, smoke 143
    Vindicator - daemonic possession, mutated hull 175

    1500 Tau:
    Shas'el - plasma, missile, array, hwmulti 97

    Crisis - twinmissile, array 53
    4 Stealths - arrays 160
    4 Stealths - arrays 160

    10 Fire Warriors - shas'ui - in Devilfish - sms, decoys, multi, array 230
    10 Fire Warriors - shas'ui - in Devilfish - sms, decoys, multi, array 230
    10 Kroot 70
    10 Kroot 70

    Piranha - fusion, array 70

    Railhead - sms, decoys, multi, lock 180
    Railhead - sms, decoys, multi, lock 180

    It was cleanse alpha. I win by holding 1 quarter (my deployment) and contesting the other 3 (yay for hiding a piranha all game then contesting my opponent's quarter last turn, it was worth the loss of the kroot to the vindicator after chosing to go second ).

    One key point in both games was that I did not have the firepower to kill marines. I was able to kill the oblits and vehicles with my heads and crisis both games (a piranha killed an oblit first game), but was unable to do significant damage to the marines.

    I won the first game solely due to capturing 2 objectives with 2 untouchable units of stealths (yay stealth armour) and 2 hammerheads. I'd lost everything else. The marines were too static and could only manage to contest 2 objectives.

    I won the second game by killing the vehicles first two turns and then hiding the rest of the game. For some reason my opponent didn't like his combat squad and suicided them by moving them towards me. Everything else stayed away after that, I ran the hammerheads into the side quarters my last turn and a piranha made a dash for my opponents quarter.

    If you learn anything from this, it's that when I use my tau against an army that can outshoot me, I win on objectives.
    Last edited by onlainari; March 16th, 2006 at 05:07.
    Quote Originally Posted by rikimaru View Post
    You have the option for instance of infiltrating, outflanking, pillboxing, or anti assault.


    And that's just with the Kroot.

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