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Sorry for the simple question but being a DE newb I don't understand the use of the grotestques. Meaning, it seems that you can only use them when you get into close combat. Then could get chewed up even with the 2 wounds.
Do you use them as forward shields? Tactics?
thx for any understanding
Right now they do have a remote use as shields for ICs who joined them (albeit torrent of fire dimishes this somewhat), and to make some enemies auto break for a sweeping advance.
This is very true.Originally Posted by ArchonAstaroth
They were much more effective in 3rd edition where you could actually screen your troops from enemy fire, while still being able to shoot past your own meatshield (it was assumed the soldiers in front would duck and cover when their allies fired from behind)
A common tactic was to string out a squad of ten in front of several Splinter Squads (Warrior squads usually consisting of 2 Splinter Cannons, 2 Blasters and a Sybarite with an Agoniser), having the Grots lead by a Haemonculus.
This formation would allow the Dark Eldar to march forward and produce a relatively high amount of fire, while absorbing small arms fire (str 5 and less), when finally reaching combat, the Sybarite's would produce kills with Agoniser attacks, and the Grots would make the enemy auto break.
This tactics is hardly useful anymore as all the enemy must do to shoot your fragile Warrior squads is pass a morale check (not hard as most armies have ways to augment Ld to 9s and 10s).
Also, the auto breaking feature isn't too usefull as the majority of units in 40K are fearless (which I think is outright stupid).
Honestly, the only true use I can see for Grots right now is in a Haemonculus themed army, encompassing several Grots, Haemies, and Taloi.
Yah, you need to know which armies the uglies (grotesques) would be effective against. Kinda confusing figuring out what "any opponent beaten in close combat automatically falls back without leadership test" and then those that are fearless or never fallback - which takes precedence?Originally Posted by MobiusPrime
Currently, I have them in a list for a grudge match against a Necron player. Used as a shock troop coming out of the warp on a raider with an Archon or Dracon.
Idea is to have raider with uglies and archon come out of the portal for 12", disembark for 2" and assault for 6". Against a regular Necron squad of 10 (can you tell I play tested this?) the Archon was good for 3 or 4 wounds and the uglies were good for 2 or 3. Since even the uglies have an intiative higher than 2, the 5 or so remaining necrons cant inflict more wounds so were forced to fall back almost everytime. An archon alone will automatically win the breakoff with an initiative 7 thus eliminating the entire squad with NO wbb roll. A quick way to work the phase out of a very tough opponent - but understand it only works with Necrons and have no clue what would happen against the smurfs.
I suppose the armies the uglies would work against are: necrons, tau, imperial guard, orks, kroot?, i dunno know...
Anybody know the entire list?
you have to use the majority's initiative value, not the highest.. and since grots in this case would be the majority, the initiative value used should be 3...
Unless you detach the Archon after moving, but before you assault with the grots. It's underhanded, but it would work.Originally Posted by WarsmithNiG
Grotesques have some use in absorbing basic weapons fire and protecting HQs, but in assault they really need some serious HTH power to back them up. A DE Lord does this nicely, although warrior/raider squads would also do well, depending on just how nasty the enemy squad is.
Against assault armies, grotesques would probably be very good speed bumps. They'd be very difficult to remove with shooting, but once in assault they'd crumple like paper, leaving the enemy assault squad stranded in the open and (ideally) within rapid-fire range of a pile of your own warriors/haemonculi.
That applies to upgrade characters - not independant characters.Originally Posted by WarsmithNiG
I believe you are wrong. Characters are treated as separate units in the Assault Phase. I think this applies if your character is in base-to-base and you are resolving the Assault Phase.
Pg. 51 Characters, "The Assault Phase" 2nd to the last paragraph.
Tell me I'm wrong so I can resolve this but if an Archon is in a unit of Grotesques I get to make 2 seperate sweeping advance rolls. One with the grotesques with I3 and another with the Archon I7.
i think your are right..
can i clarify.. if a character and a unit loses combat,
1) do they take 2 seperate rolls too??
2) so it is possble for the characters to outrun their units, like the units get caught, while the character manages to escape?