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I know there are other threads out there that discuss this, but I want to throw my 2 copper in and start by saying that I believe my suggestions to be realistic and conservative. I am also listing them in order of my perceived level of need (as in "it needs to be done").
-- Wraith squad size increase to 2-6. Not much I can say here except it is one issue that always seems to arise in these types of threads. Some say they are tactically viable, some say they are not.
-- Flay Ones overhaul. Remove Infiltrate special rule and add Furious Assault. From a fluff stand point Furious Assault seems to better fit the "persona" of FOs as their encased souls zealously yearn to rend the flesh of their enemies out of jealous hatred.
Increase to WS5. Enough said for an elite melee unit. I'd like to add that, though it would be awesome, I don't believe FOs should get Rending, Lightning Claws, or Power Weapons. A squad of 10 would very overpowered (or would have to be prohibitively expensive) when combined with their (very useful) special abilites. Add they shouldn't get captains who could have specail wargear upgrades either. Necrons are an assembly line army. Anyhow, I recognize that this stat increase (and to a lesser degree, the Special Ability change) warrant a point increase to 24pts/model.
-- Pariahs increase to I4. They are suppose to be the highest form of Necron technology and Human evolution and yet lack the "speed" of a Necron Lord. It doesn't fit for me, make the change.
-- Tomb Spyder increase to WS3. Once again, a unit that is too unwieldy to be able to use the claws the C'Tan gave it. Sad really.
-- Heavy Destroyer squad size to 1-4, maybe 5, but that may be over doing it. This is last on my list anyway.
Karmoon: "well.. any kore = good kore" 12:35pm PST 23 May 2007
1) definately, a max of 3 is not enough.
2) Furious charge is a good idea, though removing infiltrate actually makes them less fluffy.
I would also like to see FO as troops (certainly makes them worth while).
3) Pariahs need more than that TBH, I4 is nice but I would like them to have a 5+ inv. save.
4) I personally think that the tomb spyder is fine as it is.
5) H. destroyers don't really need a squad size increase.
Necrons need a lot of revision, this is what I would change:
A second HQ option besides the Lord, like a Necron Lord with -1 strength, -1 wound, -1 attack, -1 initiative, and a cost of around 70 points. This makes Necrons more viable in small points games.
Wraiths need some help vs. Terminators. They should get the rending special ability and their number of attacks should be reduced by 1. They should also get the preferred enemy special rule. Squad size should be increased to 1-4.
Flayed Ones should be a 0-3 Troops choice. Warriors should be a 2+ troops choice.
Pariahs should get the "feel no pain" special rule. They should also get a 5+ invulnerable save. They still wouldn't count as Necrons.
Gauss Cannons should be str6 ap3 heavy2 to give us some decent marine killing firepower. Alternatively the Gauss Cannon could stay as it is now but get rending as a special ability.
Heavy Destroyers should have twin-linked heavy gauss cannons at a cost of +5 points. heavy gauss cannons always miss... twin-linking them would help considerably.
Staff of Light/Particle Projector should have an 18" range and be reduced to assault2. When the Lord upgrades to the warscythe he should get the Pariah warscythe with the built-in gauss blaster.
Tomb Spyder should get WS3 and BS3. It should also be able to take certain wargear from the necron armory (phase shifter, ressurection orb, etc...). It should also be made an elites choice not a heavy support choice.
A new heavy support choice for Necrons. A fire support platform...
AV12 all sides, particle whip main weapon, skimmer, ponderous, particle whip ignores weapon destroyed rolls, and it should cost around 100 points. It can deepstrike same as the monolith. Unit size is 1-2.
C'tan should have a 3+ armor save, 4+ invulnerable save. Nightbringer's gun should fire as a gauss cannon or a heavy gauss cannon. The Deceiver should get fleet. This would help them avoid snipers... which kill them easily on turn 1 or turn 2.
Phase Out is a stupid rule... it only discourages us from using non-necrons and special characters. Phase Out should be changed to 25% of your army's total points cost.
Last edited by Khobai; March 21st, 2006 at 17:34.
I must say that I disagree with a lot of that, in my honest opinion Necrons are the most balanced army in the game, all they need is some minor tweaking.
I do however like the idea of another HQ choice.
If you think Necrons are balanced, you've never played against a marine army with 3 squads of Terminators and been completely helpless to stop them... all you can do is pour gauss flayer fire and the occasional heavy gauss cannon into them and hope they fail their saves. And if they get into close combat, forget about killing them...
Necrons are completely shafted in 4th edition because we lost screening. Necrons can't hide their lascannons in squads of 8-10 guys. We're also the only shooty army that doesn't have any decent AP3 firepower. Most of our close combat units are abysmal for one reason or another (i.e. Pariahs and Wraiths). We have half the wargear that other armies have. We have nothing in our whole army with a 2+ save. C'tan are the worst special characters in the game. Necrons definately need a HUGE overhaul.
Last edited by Khobai; March 21st, 2006 at 17:36.
Do not agree with lots of arguments. I like Necron army and all things what they have, balance isnt the worst in the game, they need just a little bit of cosmetic change.
My wish list :
1. Flayed Ones - becom as troop choise and 16pt for model;
2. Wraiths - unit size 1-5;
3. Pariahs - cost 35pt, +2 initiative, 5+ invulnerable save;
4. Heavy Destroyer - 55pt cost, unit size 1-5(they are the same size as regular Destroyers);
5. New Heavy skimmer - some kind like Predator Annihilator but stronger (13/13/11,BS4,twin linked Heavy Gauss Cannon, 2 Gauss Cannons, maybee some shield, fast vehicle, skimmer);
6. Resurection Orb - working range 12";
7. Tomb Spyder - 3WS, 3BS;
8. Necron Lord - just 70-80pt cost.
The fifth change isnt so important, just it can be good thing with twin HGC. The Hevy destroyer do not look good inought to wield the twin linked HGC.
Last edited by Saulius; March 21st, 2006 at 18:13.
What I really want to discuss here is the real "needs" of the army. Sure, some sort of tank skimmer would give some nice tank variety, but it's not a must. I really like the army list choices, I just think they need some tweaking. I intentionally left my list short because it is easy to get carried away with all the things I or anyone else thinks Necrons should be. But this could lead to breaking the balance (and fluff) of Necrons.2) I would argue that their Deep Strike capability is what really describes the FOs fluff, not Infiltrate. Take, for instance, the account of Colonel Janssen (Codex: Necron pg 3) and the fate of his Cadian forces and poor Captain Neils. And though someone might accuse me of power-gaming, what good are infiltrated FOs? What kind of support can be offered to a strict CC unit? Furious Assault fits their fluff anyway, they should get it.Originally Posted by The_Outsider
3) Agreed, though it's not as conservative as I was trying to be.
4) I will stand by my WS3. BS3(suggested by Khobai)? No, one stat or the other should be changed, but not both.
5)It was last on my list and I think more experienced players would be better judges of this, thus I freely concede this point.
As mentioned by Khobai, I think Rending for Wraiths would be a fair addition, and re-reading the rules on Rending, perhaps FOs should get it as well. Power weapons and Lightning Claws (Phase Claws? ) are still out of the question, let's keep it realistic.
Karmoon: "well.. any kore = good kore" 12:35pm PST 23 May 2007
I do disagree on some of these things, but agree to others.
Flayed ones should be a troops choice, they still get their special rules. They should NOT get furious assault, but cost 20 points a model.
Wraiths should keep their squad size (1-3) but gain the rending ability with a points increase to 45 or 50. (This is the only one I'm iffy about. Personally I love the way wraiths work now as my destroyer lord and his 9 wraith 'retinue' rip through just about anything.
Pariahs need some type of invulnerable save, chance of infilitration/deep-striking whatever something. They did get hurt in 4th edition with no chance of screeing, they cannot make it to the enemy.
I don't like the Necrons gaining a tank. The monolith is fine enough people already complain about it. We don't need another tank that has living metal etc.
Necrons should not gain squad leaders as it is very unfluffy (as told earlier) they are built for mass production, not heroic individuals.
The res orb is fine as it is now (6 inches). But the tomb spyder should gain a res orb (or something similar) but it only having a 3 inch or d6 inch range. The tomb spyders are good enough now with their ws and bs.
The heavy destroyers should retain their squad size, yes they might not hit that often but that's the price of it practically being a lascannon.
Guass cannons being str 6 ap 3:w00t: :w00t: are you nuts? The destroyers would be so severly overpowered. The points increase would be crazy (like 75+ per destroyer)
I agree that the lord's warscythe should be like the pariahs.
Now the c'tan. I don't believe that they should get a 3+ armor because they have a high enough toughness as it is. Anything likely to wound them would negate (then again sniper rifles are there for a purpose, to take down the big nasties) their armor save. They should stay as they are now. They shouldn't get fleet (talk about uber c'tan).
Later I'll come up with some changes I would like to see in the next codex.
Since Pariahs don't benifit from WBB I think they should get Bionics. They are pretty much Cyborgs, it would make sense that they have some ability to self-repair. This would give them slightly more survivability.
I totally agree with increasing the unit size for wraiths. I think wraiths also deserve a toughness increase. They look at least as beafy as a Immortal. Give them a 5 toughness.
I like the idea of furious charge for Flayed ones at a slight point increase. If they were to remain unmodified, I agree with the other poster who stated that they should be made a troop choice.
What about instead of increasing unit size Heavy Ds were given a toughness 6? After all, in the fluff it states that they are a Immortal on a Destroyer body. It would only make sence that they would get the +1 toughness bonus like a lord on a destroyer body. Of course this would make them cost more (as it should).
I'm always leary about suggesting possitive modifications to an army I play. It's like asking the fox to guard the henhouse. But, there are several units in the Cron army that just don't get used that often. To me, this indicates they need to be modified. My two-cents.
I'm new to the boards, but I'd like to offer my thoughts...
1) I agree with the others on this board, they should be made as a TROOP choice and be given a +1 to their Weapon Skill and maybe the rending claws. Look at the models.. their claws are almost as long as their arms... (In real life they look 15-20 inch long blades). I would not remove the infiltration or deep strike feature. This allows them some more battlefield flexibility.
2) Pariahs.... Never used them so I will not comment.
3) Wraiths: Definitely give them the rending claws. I don't think that an increase in size is needed at this point.
4) Heavy Destoyers.... I was thinking about this one and how about making the Heavy Destoyer an upgrade to the standard Destroyer?? In stead of making a whole new unit, make the Heavy Destroyer an upgrade. The only real difference is the weapon (don't have my Codex in front of me so I might be wrong). This would free up a slot for a different heavy choice that could be used for a Dreadnaught or a Weapons Platform.
5) The Lords seem to work well for me but I do agree that the Pariah War Scythe/Gauss Blaster is a nice toy and should be available to the Lords.
6) As far as the C'Tan go... I have only ever used the Nightbringer in one battle and he was a total waste of points. He killed three (3) troops. That's it... THREE!!
I really don't use the C'Tan so again, I'll refrain from making a comment.
7) I mentioned it before, but I too think that a new Heavy choice might not be a bad idea. Maybe a dreadnaught or a weapon platform of some type. I can see a mini pylon-like weapon or something. How about a twin-linked Gauss Cannon on a Grav Sled??
<pop> Oh.. I just thought of a cool conversion!!
Anyway... there are my ideas....
P.S. As far as a transport goes, I posted my kit-bashed design for a Necron transport in the Gallary. I called is a Tomb Raider.
"The pleasure of satisfying a savage instinct, undomesticated by the ego, is incomparably much more intense than the one of satisfying a tamed instinct. The reason is becoming the enemy that prevents us from a lot of possibilities of pleasure" S. Freud
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