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  1. #1
    Member Elric101's Avatar
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    help wanted with eldar army list

    ok so the thing is i am having a lot of trouble deciding what to use against an ultra marine army and what to get in futre to be able to crush the ultra marines. so far i have

    avatar
    warlock
    32 guardian defenders
    8 storm guardians
    8 dire avengers with exarch
    6 rangers
    5 warpspiders with exarch
    7 fire dragons with exarch
    5 dark reapers exarch
    falcon grav tank
    fire prism

    i think i might drop my fire dragons because they always get killed before getting to any vehicles and i want a close combat unit but i dont know weather to get banshees or scorpions.

    any help will be appreciated.


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  3. #2
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    reading the tactica threads strewn around this board will give you some idea of the usefullness of all the units. but i will point out some basic things to you.

    you cannot take the warlock without taking a farseer HQ choice

    in order to tailor to the ultramarines list, we need the list to see what we're up against

    there are many threads and opinons on banshees vs. scorpions, read them and make a decision. or play a few games with both and decide what's best for you. banshees without a transport get shot piecemeal. they die easily. scorpions are hardier and with the exarch stealth ability can be closer to the enemy at the start of the game, but they cannot fleet of foot so take more care to use.

    the standard setup for a falcon is pulse laser, starcannon, holofield and spirit stones. this is a 190 point pretty much unkillable gun platform. it can also transport troops. i would put your fire dragons in there personally as the falcon will get them where they need to go. fire dragons don't have to be used as vehicle killers. their guns anilhilate marines. alternativly, put a 6 man storm guardian squad with two flamers in there.

    rangers are useful for pinning mass horde units but also for dealing with high T monstrous creatures. not so hot against the marines.

    warp spiders are a great all round unit. they have the mobility to lay down good amounts of fire at high S and bugger off again before they get shot or charged. they are VERY useful for taking out pesky rhinos. resist the urge to tool up the exarch. if you take him at all, just give him the power hit & run (known as withdraw in the codex).

    reapers tend to draw a big contrast with eldar players. either you don't leagve home without them or they are a massive points sink who die too easily. they do, however, butcher marines. if you take them, use their massive range as a way of keeping out of trouble. if possible deploy behind cover.

    there is a recent thread on fire prisms kicking around. great weapon (its a lascannon with a blast marker) on a tank that can be made very survivable, but only hits half the time. up to you whether you use it but remember, as with all eldar vehicles, always move over 6 inches to get glancing hits only.

    i'm not a fan of dire avengers. they have the same gun as a guardian but fire it better with a better armour save than a guardian. i wouldn't consider taking these unless i needed to fill points and i wasnt playing representative. the exarch powers are useless as attacks cannot be targeted directly to the exarch.

    if i were you, i'd pick up at least one vyper. you have no fast attack. for 65 points you get a vyper with a starcannon. for 95, you can get a vyper with a starcannon with a crystal targetting matrix. very hard to kill then.
    a weapons platform in guardian squad wouldn't go amiss either, just to add a little punch to your army. definately consider a farseer. partially because the farseer powers are very handy and partially because it will enable you to put warlocks in your guardian squads. a 5+ cover save is not to be sniffed at. nor is the ability to re-roll leadership tests.

    you have the basis of a well balanced army. would really like to see your opponent's list and the tactics you use.

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    Member Elric101's Avatar
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    The Ultramarine army list is as follows

    Space marine captain (power sword+bolt pistol)
    Venerable dreadnought
    5 Terminators w' sergeant
    land speeder
    land speeder tornado
    28 marines 4 5man squads 1 8man (two meltaguns, 2 m.launchers)
    Whirlwind (vengeance)

    i have a heavy weopan's platform but i dont know what gun to use with it

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    put a starcannon on the weapons platform. BS3 need multi shot weapons.

    if the terminators are assault terminators and they're footslogging, you can ignore them for a turn or two. otherwise, a couple of starcannon rounds should finish them off easily.

    your anti tank is very light. this is a problem as, while your reapers would be immensly effective against this army, that whirlwind is going to cause major problems. get the fire dragons there and blow it away asap.

    as fast as the land speeders are, if they get anywhere near your warp spiders they should be toast.

    other than that, you really need to add a bit more firepower. a vyper and another weapons platform. or you could put your faith in the luck gods, take the fire prism and see if it helps. but shoot the whirlwind first

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    Member Elric101's Avatar
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    what can i use to get my fire dragons close to the whirlwind with out them being blown up

  7. #6
    Son of LO Tenozuma's Avatar
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    Perhaps a wave serpent. But perhaps not get the fire dragons to the whirlwind, get them to take out those terminators and then tactical marines and use lances or support batteries or other longer range anti tank on the 'wind.

    Quote Originally Posted by Aussie Bogan
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    Use the dragons in a squad of 6, and transport them in the falcon, then they will get colse enough. Also, make sure to have holo-field and spirit stones on that falcon, so that it can survive.

    Also, there are things in your army that either should never be used at all, or at least nor against marines. I would ditch the following:

    The storm guardians
    The dire avengers
    The fire prism
    The spider exarch

    Now, get the following to replace them:

    More GI spiders
    A Wraithlord
    3x starcannon platforms, for use in your 3x10 man guardian defender squads
    2 more warlocks with conceal for the guardians
    1x Farseer

    And about the banshees vs. scorpion thing, you need banshees. get a squad of tenine (with exarch) and a wave serpent, and give the farseer the "fortune" power, and you´ll have a unit to be feared!

    Also, you should try posting an actual army list, it will make it easier for us to help you.

  9. #8
    The Fallen Cheredanine's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by Elric101
    ok so the thing is i am having a lot of trouble deciding what to use against an ultra marine army and what to get in futre to be able to crush the ultra marines. so far i have
    OK lets eee what you have:

    avatar
    ok ish, as others have pointed out you need a farseer to use warlocks, and you probably want to use warlocks, generally 2 HQs is a little overkill in lower points battles, I would be tempted to leave out

    warlock
    Need more of these chaps and a farseer
    32 guardian defenders
    You need some star cannon weapons paltforms for these
    8 storm guardians
    can be usefull but points can probably be better spent elsewhere
    8 dire avengers with exarch
    IMHO best use for these guys is to keep them in your pocket and hurl them at your opponent when no one is looking, other than that, beat them flat with a hammer and try and pass them off as 10 pence pieces
    6 rangers
    can be usefull against some armies, less so against marines, although a small unit aint bad
    5 warpspiders with exarch
    personnaly I dont like, but others do, I suspect the squad size is too small, but they will better be able to advise you on that
    7 fire dragons with exarch
    dont put these in the falcon and zoom them up the field, it makes the falcon too easey a target and gets it far too close to those meltas, as well as stopping it firing, personnaly I no longer find these usefull, a small squad would perhaps be of use if he deep strikes his termies,
    5 dark reapers exarch
    yes please - excelent marine killers
    falcon grav tank
    ditch the scatter laser, take a star cannon, give it spirit stones and holofield, if at all possible give it an upgrade for its shirkats to shuriken cannons, then it pours our 7-9 shots per turn on the move at str 6-9 4-6 of which will ignore saves, this can then target anything
    fire prism
    sigularly the most useless piece of £&^$& in the entire Eldar codex

    Get some more star cannon (as weapons platforms in your guardian squads perhaps
    Add a bright lance on either a walker or a wraithlord
    Perhaps the odd vyper with star cannon
    Add some assault troops and you should eat him
    Everything you have been told is a lie!


  10. #9
    Son of LO Tenozuma's Avatar
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    Oh, come on! Dire avengers aren't that bad! Sure, they aren't the best against marines but compared to guardians.... their twice as survivable to bolters, they hit more, higher ld etc... their fluffy unlike guardians (thats my main concern).

    I think perhaps there are things more useless than the prism in the eldar arsenal, take a look at shining spears for example. Or swooping hawks without the exarch.

    Quote Originally Posted by Aussie Bogan
    Teno, you are so godlike I almost creamed my pants!
    Tenozuma - The Burninator... I came, I saw, I posted.
    Dark Eldar player.

    Feel free to PM if you want any advice or help with anything.
    Assume everything I say has a "what I think" disclaimer.

    Hang out with all the other Aussie and NZ members at The ANZAC Clan.
    Need advice, want to talk warhammer or just want a laugh? Come on LO Chat. http://www.librarium-chat.com/


  11. #10
    The Fallen Cheredanine's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by Tenozuma
    Oh, come on! Dire avengers aren't that bad! Sure, they aren't the best against marines but compared to guardians.... their twice as survivable to bolters, they hit more, higher ld etc... their fluffy unlike guardians (thats my main concern).
    Nope Guardians are also naff Vs marines, you get one round of shooting, after that all they do is protect the marines against your shooting, the saving grace of guardians is the weaposn platforms, which is not an option to the DA, no the reason I consider DA naff against marines is not because I compare them to Guardians, but because I compare them to the marines, they are nmore expensive, less resilaint and less capable of killing
    I think perhaps there are things more useless than the prism in the eldar arsenal, take a look at shining spears for example. Or swooping hawks without the exarch.
    Hawks havea single use which whilst unfluffy can be marginally sucesfull, whilst spears are, I agree pants, this is primerally due to their points cost, look at 150 points, atleast you can do something with spears, the prism tanks is less effective

    I appreciate that it may be putting it quite strongly, but I think this guy has been given some pretty poor advice..

    Dragons in a falcons, what? about 300 points?

    The falcon will get one move, at which point it will be targetted by 6-10 heavy weapons (auto cannon, missile launchers, multi lasers, las cannons, missile launchers) some of which are multi shot, plus 6-8 special weapons (plasma guns and grenade launchers) and will die, out jump 6 dragons, they are no where near his vehicles because fo the screening infantry, their only targets are 6 point guardsmen, sure they kill 4, guess what happens next?
    Last edited by Cheredanine; March 27th, 2006 at 16:36.
    Everything you have been told is a lie!


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