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Ok, the "one per army" limitation on shadowfields is a problem I run into every time I want to field a secondary HQ, because do you keep your dracons alive without one? I am currently considering these two setups for my secondary HQ in my kabal. Please note that I am aware that dracites are legal in kabals, but I want a dracon for fluff reasons. Here is my ideas, tear them apart:
1) The cheap version
+ Helion Skyboard
+ Xenospasm Grenade Launcher
+ Haywire Grenades
+ Poison Blades
This dracon is primarily shooty/tactical. He has a 4+/5+ save, so he is quite easily killed, but his price is minimal, so it wont hurt that much. He can assault tanks, pin infantry, penetrate 3+ saves, take objectives and destroy low save enemies in CC, although his CC abilities are overall a bit limited.
2) The CC version
+ Helion Skyboard
+ Terrorfex Grenade Launcher
+ Plasma Grenades
+ Haywire Grenades
This dracon is mainly CC support, who will be able to take the last wound of that MC, mop up an already mauled tactical squad, kill tanks, take objecitves and pin low-med Ld infantry. I have given him a terrorfex instead of the xenospasm, because he will be in CC more, and not be able to fire the weapon enough for him to deserve it.
Are these two setups worth their points in your oppinion? And if so, which one is better? Or do you have another idea?
Last edited by Sareld; April 5th, 2006 at 15:26.
1st option for its coolness.
2nd option IMO for his efficencey. This guy probably will serve you better.
""What's the matter? Don't ya like clowns? Don't we make ya laugh?" - Captain Spaulding.
I, when I field a second HQ, either use Haemonculi or a Dracon with Incubi (which isn't often mind you). The Incubi will keep him alive (majority armor save), and coming out of a portal he won't have many problems getting into combat.
Of the two you listed, I'd probably go with option one, but I'd probably drop the haywire grenades, I wouldn't trust one attack to be worth giving up the shooting, and there's no reason to make him any more expensive than necessary, though for HG's cost, I can understand why you'd keep them, just in case.
Everything I have told you, even this, is a lie.
i personally like the 2nd one, because it is more h2h.. the 1st would not last long to shooting
for the 2nd one, i dont think u need haywire grenades, because you have an agonizer.. i know it is not the tank anti tank weapon, but he/her should be more of killing infantry..
I am really torn between the two, because they have so vastly diffrent purposes. No1 might not last if he is shot ar, but imagine deepstriking him next to a 250 point harvoc squad with autocannons! He would either pin them (bonus!) or draw their fire, thus dying but saving a raider. No2 is more of a CC support dude, who can help where nessecary, and can basically do everything that no 1 does too. But loosing no2 would hurt more, as he is more expensive. Tough call.
I also like your suggestions, ShaodwcatX, but I think IĀ“ll stick to a dracon. I dislike the heamies, and I dont like to use slow infantry either. It is just a silly personal preference, and I would probably do a lot better by doing that, but I wont. Neither incubi or heamies fit the fluff for my kabal.
And on the haywire issue, there is no doubt that no1 will heep them just in case, but will no2? IĀ“ll just do the math:
4 agonizer attacks on the charge vs. a tank that havent moved (auto-hit)
4 * (1/6) = 0,6667 glancing hits
1 haywire attack vs. a tank that havent moved (auto-hit)
1 * (4/6) = 0,6667 glancing hits
1 * (1/6) = 0,1667 penetrating hits
4 agonizer attacks on the charge vs. a tank that have moved less than 6" (4+ to hit)
4 * (1/6) * (3/6) = 0,3333 glancing hits
1 haywire attack vs. a tank that have moved less than 6" (4+ to hit)
1 * (4/6) * (3/6) = 0,3333 glancing hits
1 * (1/6) * (3/6) = 0,0833 penetrating hits
4 agonizer attacks on the charge vs. a tank that have moved more than 6" or skimmers (6 to hit)
4 * (1/6) * (1/6) = 0,1111 glancing hits
1 haywire attack vs. a tank that have moved more than 6" or skimmers (6 to hit)
1 * (4/6) * (1/6) = 0,1111 glancing hits
1 * (1/6) * (1/6) = 0,0278 penetrating hits
Overall, the haywires offer a slight advantage, by matching the agonizers chance to glance, but the haywires also have a small chance of penetrating its target. I think IĀ“ll keep them.
What I take for my second HQ choice really depends on my army.
If I want some more HTH power, then I'd take a dracon with incubi on a raider (incubi give the dracon all the protection he needs, most of the time)
If I want a harrasment or shooty unit, I'd instead go for one or more Haemonculi with destructors, scissorhands and possibly hellion skyboards
I would only consider your first dracon if I wanted to take a BS5 xenospasm or I didn't want to take haemies out of theme, as you've said above. Otherwise an equivalently equipped haemonculus is cheaper and tougher;
Haemonculus w. Archangel of pain (for pinning), Destructor (for killing), Hellion Skyboard, haywire and Scissorhand - 69
For added cheapness, the grenades and/or scissorhand can be taken out, as could the archangel of pain. The destructor could also be replaced with a stinger if you intend to rely mostly on the one-shot archangel.
Bingo, I agree with Dranthar.Originally Posted by Dranthar
However, let me take this a step further. I think the Haemy is better without firing pinning weapons, pinning should be done by succubi or sybarites - kind of a waste if think about the opportunity of firing the destructor, that is why I pair my haemys with sybarites with a fex or xeno or other wargear - all they have is a splinter pistol. Pin, flame and blast = repeat cycle.
Kind of round-robin, Haemy's are better shooters than lords, lords are better cc than Haemys.
Yay!Originally Posted by KwiKwagI agree about the pinning weapons vs a destructor, which is why I think of the archangel as a backup weapon more than anything else - it's meant to be used when I've failed to pin an enemy unit with my raider squads. Basically, I think of it as a form of 5 pt insurance.Originally Posted by KwiKwag
Originally Posted by Dranthar
Dam, we think alike! Yes, pin with a haemy as a backup - I place haemys in shooty units that cant afford to be in cc - Horrorfex for the raider, then either xeno or terrorfex for succ/syb and/or haemy with archangel:yes:
Ya know, if you can master this pinning idea like say coming out of the warp - it almost makes slave snares a viable option. Just rake over the pinned squad with a raider with snares and get your prisoners/slaves with the extra juicy victory point boost...hmm, just an idea.
What an awesome idea:
2 Haemonculi w Destructors, Scissor Hands, Plasma G, Gruesome Talismans
7 Warriors, Splinter Cannon, Blaster
1 Sybarite w PBlades, Gruesome Talisman, Trophy Rack, Terrorfex Plasma G
1 Raider, DL, Horrorfex, Nightshield
The HQ and squad (except for the Sybarite) fire at Squad A, if they kill it great, if not maybe it's under 1/2 str. Then the Sybarite unleashes the Terrorfex (-1 if under 1/2 str) and pins them, if not then the Raider tries for the pin with the Horrorfex. Once the squad is pinned the Raider runs it over for slaves and moves on to the next target. Repeat.
If it becomes smarter to disembark into Hth then at least they aren't totally useless: 9 attacks on the charge hitting on 3 or 4 and wounding on 2's. And if they Raider gets shot down then you've got 2 destructors in 4+ cover. Park this thing on an objective and dare you opponent to shoot it.
I'm going to try 2 such squads backed up by 2 fully tooled up Wytch Raiders, 2 gunboats (10 warriors, SPCannon, Blaster, Nightshield), 2 sniper squads and 2 Ravagers w. Dissies. Lots of priority targets and the lack of an Archon/Dracon will 'freak you out' (Stewie Griffon voice over). There's a 2000 point bring and battle coming up May 9th. Sounds like a fun list.
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