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is it just me or do a lot of people have problems trying to reduce the point costs for there carnifexs and hive tyrants, ive tried and at best i can only get my fex down to 151 and i havn't even tried getting the tyrant down but does any one else find it hard to bring down the point costs for these two units
Interesting point. I think it probably depends upon what you want the fex for and whether or not you are prepared to use it solely for the purpose you designed it for.
I made an elite one yesterday and I was worried about how it would survive because it just has 2x Scyth Tal and +1I and +1WS. But it took down two dreads and 5 terminators last night. So I was happy with that.
I also have a decked out close combat one but all the biomorphs and things have had their uses in the past. But it is much more expensive...:rolleyes:
The heart of this is that there are just so many cool ways to improve the carnifex so that it is a darn effective killing machine. The lure is hard to say no to. However, with their basic stats and some minor upgrades carnifexes are pretty darn scary even with points that bring them in as an elite (though, your long range/high power shooting will suffer).
I have been wondering about a Godzilla army with three elite carnifexes, each with a barbed strangler and twin-linked devourers for the elites. The only problem is their BS, which cannot be upped to stay elites. Still, it could be interesting with three of them. Then you can put other fun carnifex configs in the heavy slots.
Tyranids: Hive Fleet Kohr-Ah
I think it pays to stack options onto your hive tyrants. Firstly, they're command units, so you want to make them as durable as possible (enhanced carapace or warp field, even toxic miasma). You may as well add combat options as well, since the HTs are very well endowed to start with and relatively small on-costs give you significant synergies.
You can save points on your fexes however by designing them for very specific battlefield tasks rather then making them generally imposing. A long-range (36") shooterfex doesn't need enhanced carapace since the foe will be using AP2- weapons to take it down - these will ignore a 2+ save. An extra wound might help it live one turn longer, however. An elite combatfex has two purposes: to draw fire from your other troops on its way in, and to kill until it is killed while causing disarray and panic. It's not going to live forever, but starting at T6 with 4 wounds, it's going to be surprisingly hard to put down already.
It's very tempting to build a 260pt+ uber combat fex. Scary as these mothers are, they're actually not as good as the cheap fexes since they die almost as quickly.
I have to say, Solo hit the nail on the head. You have to be willing to commit your Carni to whatever purpose you created him with. I will expand on this idea and say you also have to be willing to (...gulp...) sacrafice a carnifex to advance troops. Here is how I run my carnifex:
Carnifex with 2 sets of scything and extended carapace.
Everyone who plays against tyranids hates Carnifex's. Everyone. As a result, they will waste lots and lots of gunpowder doing their best to prevent Big Nasty from even getting close to their army. I played an Imperial Guard army friday, and I did my best to move my Carni from cover to cover, and whenever my oponent could even slightly see him, he launched all he had at it. It took him 2 rounds to dispatch the carnifex, so the carnifex never even made 1 single attack, but the damage had been done. What was left of the broodlord and his squad were assaulting from the left along with a squad of raveners, and my winged hive tyrant and another squad of genestealers were assaulting from the right. By the time the Imperium realized what it had done, it was too late. So, all in all, the Carnifex had done exactly what I wanted him to. Good boy (pats carnifex on head :yes. Good boy.
A good player should be willing to sacrifice any brood for the sake of the hive... as your story illustrates well. That said... a big part of a Tyranid invasion is the fear and panic caused by their advance... so don't be afraid to spread a little fear. If you can predict which of your units your enemy will focus his attacks on, you can also predict which ones will survive to face his troops. I find that not fielding every unit, and mentioning only the strengths of some (while only discussing the weaknesses of others) can work wonders against opponants you play often and know well.Originally Posted by ridegnu
"A Ravener would've won that combat. I'll get him next time." (Said after my last genestealer was pistolwhipped by my guard enemy's commander... I expect the one Ravener I use next game to take a -lot- of fire on turn one... and the three I use in the game after that to take virtually none.)
"Lictors are great at taking out heavy weapons." (my IG opponant fired -every- squad within 24" at the lictor I deep-struck into cover next to his heavy weapons teams (it killed one, then broke combat and hid in cover in a position where as many squads as possible could get a shot at it.). 3 autocannons, a krak missile, and 21 lasguns... he was finally killed by one guardsman with a lasgun, the only member of the command squad who could reach the target... but that turn, none of those squads were shooting at my Genestealers.)
"Lictors are great at killing Dark Reapers." (hehe... my Eldar friend decided not to deploy his Dark Reapers in appropriate cover... and I got them with a barbed strangler / venom cannon carnifex on turn 1. )
"Rippers are pathetic and aren't worth much." (my leaping rippers took no damage until they charged 12" and locked down an enemy Grey Knight squad long enough for the Carnifex to wipe them out in the charge (yay cover and Spine Banks! )).
Psychological warfare... don't lie about your army list or capabilities, but if you play up a unit's capabilities or emphasize its shortcomings... unless your opponant plays your army too, you can predict which units will take a lot of fire, and which will survive to face his lines.
My IG opponant -fears- Carnifexes. Most of my opponants are afraid of the Carnifex, actually (except my Ork opponant, but he's pretty much immune to any psychological warfare more complex than "Waaaaagh!")... but none of them are as afraid as my IG friend. He fears them to the point of irrationality (I call him a Carniphobe)... so I tend to model them big and intimidating (and the ones I want to draw fire are typically standing over a dozen or so dead Guardsmen), because he's convinced he can't take down more than one in a game without making every heavy weapon in his army a Lascannon. It's misguided, and I find it absolutely hilarious... but I'm more than willing to use his fear of the Carnifex to my advantage by using them as fire magnets.
Once you get to know your army, you can predict which units will take fire based on the pre-game banter. If your opponant seems to take interest in some of your units more than others, even if he just admires the paintscheme, you can expect that the broods he took interest in is going to draw an inordinate amount of fire.