Welcome to Librarium Online!
Join our community of 80,000+ members and take part in the number one resource for Warhammer and Warhammer 40K discussion!
Registering gives you full access to take part in discussions, upload pictures, contact other members and search everything!
Ok been playing 40k probably since '02. Own a mix of armies, and play against a group of guys with a mix of races. Recently our group has entered into a discussion of Crystal Targeting matrixes, and whether an army of eldar vehicles equipped with them would be to cheesy.
Well anyway some rule questions came into play on whether a Skimmer would be considered to be of level 3 height if hovering above level 3 terrain, and thus would be able to see enemy models behind level 3 terrain and make its attack then climb back down behind the terrain out of LOS during the end of its movement. Therefore avoiding any possible return fire.
You can follow our discussion on the following link:
Feel free to even post in it, and sign up on our site. We are a group of gamers that are considered to be really knowledgeable about the game.
Any input would be appreciated.
It would never work. There simply isn't enough terrain to hide behind unless you're playing with a wall right down the front of your deployment zone.
I mean, most footslogging armies can move behind the cover so that there isn't anywhere for even a vyper to hide...
You have just recieved the Amish Computer Virus. Since the Amish don't have computers, it is based on the honor system. So please delete all the files from your computer. Thank you for you cooperation.
Votewar 40k Mk1- 2nd Place
Votewar FB 1- 1st Place
Votewar 40k Mk5- 1st Place
There is plenty of terrain to hide behind believe me standard 25% is enough, and when those slow footslogging troops get close enough to assault or shoot you behind cover after 3 turns of moving (if they are not blasted already by cannon fire) than you can just zip 24" accross the board into anotehr directions and wathc those troops die pathetically as they try to catch up to you again while you blast them with SC fire.
I generally like the idea of matrixes. Their effectiveness is dependant on the level of terrain as TheWamp mentioned. I think there usually is enough terrain to make them useful, but if there isn't they have the movement to get them to cover quickly.
I like the concept and I wouldn't call it too cheesy, I have seen Tau armies with mainly battle/stealth suits and have considered them fun enough to play. You also pay alot of a single CTM so in the end the major costs will limit your army size so I doubt it would be overly cheesy.
Ok what about the concept of using them to hover over Terrain to gain the height advantage in order to see the entire battlefield? Would this be acceptable? Keep in mind the rule was made b/c it was thought that a Skimmer would stay hovering over terrain and thus could be shot at back. With a Crystal Targeting matrix you could effectively eliminate hidden targets with little fear of return fire, as you would just return behind cover in the movement phase.
Not very good IMO. Hovering above terrain means you will definately crash and burn if you get immobilised (Skimmers can land if they get immobilised if they don't move over a certain distance). Also being on height three terrain doesn't allow you to see over other height three terrain, so units can still be obscured from your skimmers very easily. You've already noted hovering on height three makes you a better target. In general.....not a good idea.
I don't think you understand what I am trying to say.
With a Crystal Targeting Matrix you can spend some of your movement hovering over terrain to get clear shots to fire. Then when you are finished firing you can finish your movement by returning behind the terrain that you hovered over. Therefore you will be hidden from your opponents troops b/c you won't be hovering over terrain anymore, and your opponent will not be able to fire at you.
Now the question is, as you are hovering over say something like size 3 terrain doesn't it make you size 6 as you are a size three vehicle and you add the terrain you are hovering over to your height so therefore it would allow you to fire over other size three terrain allowing you better LOS? Plus, since this all in the movment phase b/c you are using a CTM, you can then move back behind the terrain you were previously hovering over and no longer count as visible, and without concealment for the remainder of the turn. In theory you would actually be hidden behind the terrain you moved behind that you were previously firing atop of.
No....you don't become height 6 because you hover above terrain. Other height 3 terrain peices still block you LoS.
What I think you are asking is essentially can you do 'pop-up' attacks.
Something from 2nd edition.
Well, while I think(with the CTM upgrade on your eldar skimmers) that you could indeed move to the top of Lvl 3 terrain, shoot and then move down to hide, you still couldn't shoot past another piece of lvl 3 terrain.
Its due to the simplification of the rules that came with 4th edition. It is no longer WYSIWYG for terrain.
Unfortunately, as has been pointed out there is really only 3 size levels in 40K (page 17 of the main rulebook) even when hovering above level 3 terrain you cannot see over other level three terrain.
For example, a hovering Monolith is obviously much larger and taller than a Rhino, yet for the purposes of the rules, both are considered level 3.
Page 7 of the main rulebook.
A Monolith can't shoot overtop a Rhino the way the rules are presently laid out.
Even a Monolith hovering above a lvl 3 hill.
While you can use a piece of terrain's height as your own for purposes of firing, Page 21 of the main rule book. you can't add them together.
Its silly and it doesn't make much sense, but as the rules stand thats the way it works.
Believe me I wish that some things would go back to the way they were in 2nd edition and the height rules are one of them.
But as it stands, you simply can't shoot over top lvl 3 terrain.
Last edited by Grey; April 8th, 2006 at 16:10.
"No one has a monopoly on wisdom."-S.W.G.
Fluff Master Clan initiate.
"I know not with what weapons World War III will be fought, but World War IV will be fought with sticks and stones."-A.E.
"Before you embark on a journey of revenge, dig two graves."-C.
New 40K missions here.
Esentially rules are a guide, you can change them if you wish as long as both players agree to what the changes are and are told before hand. Don't expect the changes to be so when playing against others though.