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I just was thinking about our Carnifex, back in the day when it had 10 wounds, toughness of 8 or 9 (las cannon wounded on 4+ ), etc. Sure, I never hit with the bioplasma, but noone wanted to get HTH with it either. Now that everything is so slow, I was thinking of the Close Combat Fex. I was thinking of a CC monster in an Urban setting. So this is what I'm thinking (probably only make one because it's a huge point sink). Unless it changed in 4th Ed, the flesh hooks should make the initiative problem, well not a problem. So what does everyone think of my expensive Stossfex?
StossFex- 213 pts
Mod Edit -
Statline removed. Please don't break copyright rules by posting statlines or points costs.
When charging D6+3 (first turn only)
Upto 4 additions attacks (3 S5 (max), 1 S10 on 4+)
-1 WS to all models attacking or attacked
2 S6 Shots, reroll to hit
So what do you think? Other than it costs the same as 42 Spinegaunts (almost 43). I could add regenerate, for almost a total of 250. I also considered putting Thornback and Symbiotes (I think that would make the model count roughly 4 for outnumbering), but I don't think that would be a big factor.
Last edited by Caluin; April 13th, 2006 at 19:53.
Bio-Plasma will most likely be more harm than good. Because the bio-plasma attack takes place out of initiative order (*unless they're in cover), that means the enemy can remove the only model in base with the Carnifex and deny you the rest of the combat phase.Originally Posted by Archival
Crushing Claws are statistically worse than taking 2 sets of scything talons (You'll usually average less attacks per turn), and they're too expensive. I'd consider dropping them for a second set of scything talons.
Spine Banks and Flesh Hooks both provide the frag grenade ability, so if you're looking to create a true CC monster, consider picking up Thornback and Symbiote Rippers instead of Spine Banks, to put the fear of... well, your Carnifex, into the enemy troops.
Scythe Tail's low strength negates one of the big advantages of having a 10 strength... one-shotting T5 models. Consider replacing it with Mace Tail, as I find one strength 10 attack is worth 3-4 strength 5 ones.
I also suggest Regeneration. On paper, it doesn't look very good... until you remember that you get to roll -every turn- to see if you get wounds back, not just once like Old One Eye does.
So, my advice: Drop the Crushing Claws, Bio-Plasma, and Spinebanks (you probably won't be shooting things with this carnifex anyway) and take Regeneration, Thornback, and Symbiote Rippers. You'll wind up with a very similar point-cost, and a real CC monster.
Mod Edit -
Thanks for pointing that out to him, but try not to quote the offending part. That just makes us have to edit two things instead of one.My CC 'Fex, Drang, has almost the exact same lodeout (minus Implant Attack), and he always performs well (either as a fire magnet, or as a troop decimator).Originally Posted by Archival
Keep a squad of leaping rippers near him at all times. The leaping rippers move the same speed as the Carnifex, but have a 12" charge range that can be used to lock down enemy squads so that you're certain to get the charge with your Carnifex. It's a great tactic, and nobody notices the little rippers next to such a huge target (don't cluster them, though, or the 'Fex and his little ravenous buddies will take a pie plate or two).
Last edited by Caluin; April 13th, 2006 at 19:54.
Cool, thanks for the feedback, like I said, I'm a bit unfamiliar with the 4th Ed rules. Does outnumbering with the carnie really make a difference? I might flank this carny with two shooters (1 w/ VC and BS, and 1 w/ 2 TL Devourers, and both with spinebanks (I just like the idea of 2 free shots with the spinebanks). I figure the Heavy Gunfex for heavy stuff, the Dev for slaughtering the masses (more so eldar and IG, but 10 S6 shots are still nothing to sneeze at.
PS- My bad on the statline.
I agree with Ninja-poptart about the spinebanks.
The first thing is drop the spinebanks flesh hooks do the frag grenade thing already and you won't be using it to shoot much with a Carnifex specialised for close combat.
Flesh hooks also let you climb walls. Get thornback instead of spinebanks.
I'm not sure about the crushing claws. The math says they are not much better than scything talons. However on occasion they are better and far superior when used with lots of cheap critters swamping the foe. With crushing claws you will roll low and high in a combat with lots of distractions it will roll well eventually. And for the extra points 17 more it's not bad.
It really depends on whether you want to play it safe.
If you prefer a safe bet get talons not claws.
Crushing claws (and talons) DO NOT provide worse results than 2x talons, they average 4.5 attacks base, over 4 attacks base. This is slightly better, but definately NOT worth the points, in all situations i would pick talons over claws.
The crushing claws are a worse choice, because of their cost. I keep wishing that Games Workshop had made them more worth the while, like allowing one reroll to hit per turn. Heck, if they were 1d6+1, instead of 1d6 they would be worth it.
I use them on one of my carnifexes, but that is because I like they way the crushing claws look and the fun factor they bring to some games. There is some entertainment value when the carnifex gets a 6 roll and proceeds to pulverize an annoying commissar. One of those "sucks to be you, pal" things.
I have had my best results with thornback against fearless enemies. It is a mixed blessing against others.
Tyranids: Hive Fleet Kohr-Ah
A lot of people say that Crushing Claws aren't worth it as they cost so much more then scy-tals and give so "little" advantage... PErsonally, I'd use them on a CC fex just because of the chance of getting more attacks- on a 3+ you do at least as well as if you just had the 2 pairs of scy-tals, and you have a 50% chance of doing better, though with a 33% chance of doing worse. Personally, I like those odds- the possibility of nearly doubling my attacks with such a low chance of doing worse seems good to me. Besides, its only for just over 3 spinegaunts more.... Doesn't seem too bad to me... If your a gambler, take them, if not, don't. Niether is too much better then the other, it all depends on your playing style. Maybe try a proxy game with both and see which you like more?
Hmmm... For other things, I'd remove the bio-plas, ts, tw-st, spinebanks, and implant attack. You already ID nearly anything with your basic strength, the spinebanks will do more hurt then good (potentially killing the only model within charge range...) and are redundant with flesh hooks, the tail weapon tends to do pretty poorly (2 hits on average, odds of killing a marine about the same as a mace tail, minus the ID against ICs, but for double the points), and with the fex already IDing most things, the implant attack won't do much. Besides, even a CC monster fex would die pretty quickly to anything that it would need Implant against because of its low initiative (pity they didn't keep the initiative hight like in 2nd ed.... The second ed initiative was as high as our current stealers....). TS is better then Implant, so if you must take one take that, but niether will be neccesary against most foes.
Thornback is a great upgrade for CC fexes- if you manage to win combat, then the enemy will be facing down 20 wounds worth of model. Against a 5 man marine unit, thats already 3 extra wounds- an additional dead marine. Regen might be worth it on a CC fex, but I'd give the same advice on it as the crushing claws. If your lucky enough to take one, might as well take both (and buy a few lottery tickets).
40K armies: Tyranids (2001), Space Wolves (2008), Sisters of Battle (2011)
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