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    Broadsides + shield drones?

    At the moment ive been making use of Broadsides with 2 shield drones each [usually 2 squads of 1] and ive got some questions.

    Plus points for them:
    • At 100 points each they are far cheaper than a railhead and do better at killing armor.
    • When all the opponents tanks are gone they are useful at killing troops behind cover forcing them to move [sometimes]
    • They are very difficult to kill quickly as they require at least 3 lascannon hits to kill 1 or a bucketload of saves to kill without ap2 weapons.
    • If i wanted [not tried this yet] i could give them the Slow and Purposeful wargear thingy allowing them to move and shoot.
    Negative points for them:
    • They have less maneuverability than a railhead.
    • They can be killed by regular bolters and other standard guns.
    • They can be killed in combat easier.
    • The new drone rules mean that if i lose even a single drone i will have to test for 25% casualties and if i lose both drones and run, there is no chance of coming back.
    Questions:

    Is the new drone rule going to be THAT much of a problem?
    If it is going to be a problem, could it be solved by putting both suits in 1 squad with 2 drones and giving the other a target lock?
    Do i really need slow and purposeful? I am quite confident that i can sit them out in the open from the very start, thus reducing the need to move and shoot.

    I know some people on here swear by the use of railheads, but to me [and my experience] they just seem too fragile to be counted on to take out enemy tanks. 1 lascannon shot for the 'head vs 3 shots for the suits.

    Any comments?

    Last edited by ubermoose; April 20th, 2006 at 13:37.

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  3. #2
    The deep down truth Rikimaru's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by ubermoose
    At the moment ive been making use of Broadsides with 2 shield drones each [usually 2 squads of 1] and ive got some questions.

    Plus points for them:
    • At 100 points each they are far cheaper than a railhead and do better at killing armor.
    • When all the opponents tanks are gone they are useful at killing troops behind cover forcing them to move [sometimes]
    • They are very difficult to kill quickly as they require at least 3 lascannon hits to kill 1 or a bucketload of saves to kill without ap2 weapons.
    • If i wanted [not tried this yet] i could give them the Slow and Purposeful wargear thingy allowing them to move and shoot.
    Negative points for them:
    • They have less maneuverability than a railhead.
    • They can be killed by regular bolters and other standard guns.
    • They can be killed in combat easier.
    • The new drone rules mean that if i lose even a single drone i will have to test for 25% casualties and if i lose both drones and run, there is no chance of coming back.
    Questions:

    Is the new drone rule going to be THAT much of a problem?
    If it is going to be a problem, could it be solved by putting both suits in 1 squad with 2 drones and giving the other a target lock?
    Do i really need slow and purposeful? I am quite confident that i can sit them out in the open from the very start, thus reducing the need to move and shoot.

    I know some people on here swear by the use of railheads, but to me [and my experience] they just seem too fragile to be counted on to take out enemy tanks. 1 lascannon shot for the 'head vs 3 shots for the suits.

    Any comments?
    I think Drones have one major problem and thats the fact that they count towards casualties for moral (25% loss) purposes, it just screws up XV8 and XV88 teams so much, I mean I take lone XV8's and lone commanders mainly because I know they never have to take last man standing tests or run away if they get shot (lose a wound), but give them drones and as soon as they lose 1 your testing, and lose them all and they are taking last man tests, great.
    I wont take drones with XV suits for that one reason, and with XV88,s they are even worse if you fail the test for 25% losses you cant even shoot when your running away (unless you take slow and purp).
    As for the fragility of HH, you are joking right, give a HH multi move it 12" a turn and give it decoys and its infuriatingly hard to kill, I use 3 in 2000pts and I have never (and I mean never) lost all 3 in a game (luck may be but I doubt it). Broadsides have major weaknesses, TGH4 one shot gets through from a lascanon or equiv and its gone, assault, get a team caught in assault they are screwed, I love laughing at opponents as they try to catch my HH and laugh even more when they realise they need a 6 just to hit it when they assault it.
    Try keeping XV88's away from fast assault teams.
    XV88's even with S&P are not cheap, when you factor in the HH's ability to target much more with its subs round and with ML help is now much better equiped to kill armour the HH is a bargain, 1 XV88 at 100 pts will do very little against anything other than armour 2 at 200pts will not do much more but one HH at 165 pts can do plenty to any part of an opponents army,so expensive is relative.
    Keep the XV88 its overpriced, vulnerable, very limited in its uses and can be negated very quickly by an opponent who knows its liabilitys. HH are tough, versatile, can move and shoot and resist assaults and they scare the S**t out of opponnets (nice distraction)

    Broadsides with shield drones may seem ok but lose just one drone and its not good news for the XV88, if you only have one drone the XV88 is vulnerable to that lascannon next turn, if you take 2 drones its 30pts and as said previously your testing for 25% if you lose one.
    Last edited by Rikimaru; April 20th, 2006 at 16:06.
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    I used to use 1 or 2 165 point HH's in 1000pt armies, and even with decoys and having moved 12" they are still fairly easy to kill in my experience. Maybe im just unlucky.

    And any result on the penetration OR glancing table is bad news for a unit whose main role is to take out tough stuff quickly while remaining mobile.

    Ld 8 isnt too bad to have to take if i lose the drones though.

    I think ill keep swapping between HH's and broadsides until i find which i prefer more. Even though one of my regular opponents is Guard and the subs cut through them like butter.:shifty:

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    I'm not going to use them on my regular suits or broadsides just for the casualties reason. I once had the casualties rule run my broadsides off the table first turn and cost me the game. I guess the pilots found it too unsettling that their drone got picked off by an eldar pathfinder. I love shield drones as much as anyone, and it upsets me that i'm only going to be putting them on my HQ instead of most units. It's just too risky with other units.
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    Under the old codex I ran 3 Broadsides with 2 Shield Drones each, plus a 'Vre with Target Lock. Now that the rules are fixed, I've cut it down to 4 Drones, and ditched the 'Vre upgrade. I haven't lost a Broadside since I started taking Drones with them. My opponents don't even bother to shoot at them anymore. I think of it as a 60 point insurance policy.

    Cheers!

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    Quote Originally Posted by rikimaru
    I think Drones have one major problem and thats the fact that they count towards casualties for moral (25% loss) purposes, it just screws up XV8 and XV88 teams so much, I mean I take lone XV8's and lone commanders mainly because I know they never have to take last man standing tests or run away if they get shot (lose a wound), but give them drones and as soon as they lose 1 your testing, and lose them all and they are taking last man tests, great.
    I wont take drones with XV suits for that one reason, and with XV88,s they are even worse if you fail the test for 25% losses you cant even shoot when your running away (unless you take slow and purp).
    As for the fragility of HH, you are joking right, give a HH multi move it 12" a turn and give it decoys and its infuriatingly hard to kill, I use 3 in 2000pts and I have never (and I mean never) lost all 3 in a game (luck may be but I doubt it). Broadsides have major weaknesses, TGH4 one shot gets through from a lascanon or equiv and its gone, assault, get a team caught in assault they are screwed, I love laughing at opponents as they try to catch my HH and laugh even more when they realise they need a 6 just to hit it when they assault it.
    Try keeping XV88's away from fast assault teams.
    XV88's even with S&P are not cheap, when you factor in the HH's ability to target much more with its subs round and with ML help is now much better equiped to kill armour the HH is a bargain, 1 XV88 at 100 pts will do very little against anything other than armour 2 at 200pts will not do much more but one HH at 165 pts can do plenty to any part of an opponents army,so expensive is relative.
    Keep the XV88 its overpriced, vulnerable, very limited in its uses and can be negated very quickly by an opponent who knows its liabilitys. HH are tough, versatile, can move and shoot and resist assaults and they scare the S**t out of opponnets (nice distraction)

    Broadsides with shield drones may seem ok but lose just one drone and its not good news for the XV88, if you only have one drone the XV88 is vulnerable to that lascannon next turn, if you take 2 drones its 30pts and as said previously your testing for 25% if you lose one.


    Aren't commanders like IC's, meaning they NEVER test for all on their own?

    And bout the Question, I think it's more experience that'll tell, but it like a termy with a better save guarding a broadside, so how often do they get shot you think?

    You could also go for the Shield generator instead of the drones, everytime I play gainst the generators I get a bit annoyed as it makes suits a lot harder to kill.
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    I agree with Hammerheads being unreliable. They can survive, yes, but any glance or pen. will make them useless for a turn...and how often do they NOT get shot at?

    I used to make Broadsides with shield drones work by attaching an Ethereal, making them Fearless. Now that Ethereals are so much weaker, though, I've gone to Farsight. Extra wounds are the expense of more Ld tests...pick your poison but bear in mind XV88s tend to be near the table edge.

    Me, anymore I put the shield generators on my suits directly and call it good. Why did GW insist on making drones count towards morale? It was the one thing I wanted them to change in the revision, but no...we got Pirahnas instead.
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    Eh. I don't really agree with this premise. I play IG and Tau, and, thinking with the IG part of my brain, there's no way I'd look across the table at a BS/Shield Drone combo and say: "It's going to take a lot of lascannon shots to kill that." Shield drones are good vs. a small number of quality shots, true, so why would I waste my quality fire on shield drones when a volume of weak fire, or a template, works so much better? There's no point in burning lascannon shots Shield Drones when you can soften them up more effectively with lasguns, frag missiles, or, dare I say it, mortars. Or when you can smoke Broadside and Drones together with any ordnance weapon.

    Broadsides are pretty tough, but adding the shield drones doesn't make them untouchable. It just means your opponent has to be a little more selective about what weapons they use to take them out. A Basilisk or a Demolisher will ace a Broadside of any configuration far more easily than they will ace a Hammerhead.

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    Actually im pretty sure that vs an ordnance blast [assuming its ap2, if its ap 3 then im not too worried] i would get 3 4+inv saves and i only need to pass 1 to keep it alive. Majority save yes?

    Also lasguns rarely get within range of my broadsides and if they do its like killing a squad of termies with them.

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    There is no such thing as a 'majority save', you are getting confused between the majority toughness rule and the mixed armour rule.

    Wounds are calulated on the majority toughness.

    Saves, when dealing with mixed armour, are applied to the majority TYPE first, with additional wounds then applied to the next numerous type etc.. If every model is assigned a wound and there are still more, they 'wrap around' back to the majority type.

    If a unit of two broadsides and two shield drones gets hit by a demolisher cannon, its game over time for that unit. You wont have an opportunity to save anyone as long as the demolisher cannon scores four wounds. The only models that would have potentially had the invulnerable save would have been the drones, but they are removed when the broadsides are instakilled, as they dont get saves at all, and no drone controler means no drones. Moral of the story is, dont get hit by demolisher cannons if you are relying on drones as they wont save you at all.
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