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First off, I'm new, both to Warhammer 40K and these forums, as well, so 'hi.'
Down to brass tacks:
I have several questions regarding a couple of Tau rules. For starters, I've decided that the Tau are the army for me. I love the playstyle, the look, and the options the Tau have. However, I'm a bit confused at points.
1) Battlesuits like the XV8 Crisis can have more than three pieces of gear, right? For example, I could equip a battlesuit with Twin-linked Burst Cannons, a Targetting Array, and a Multi-tracker, right? It says in the unit description that I must select three battlesuit weapons/support systems. Does that mean I can select only three, or that I have to choose at least three, and then others in addition? I know a 'vre or an 'ui team leader can select extra wargear, but what about weapons (and more importantly) support systems? I've seen a couple of armies where the guy had more than three systems, but I've seen other armies posted where the guy was complaining about gear 'taking up slots,' so I'm confused, also possibly befuddled.
2) If I wanted to give an XV8 burst cannons, but not link them, is that allowed? That would give me six shots instead of three, though the rerolls would no longer apply. I can pay for each burst cannon separately (16pts instead of 12pts) and not link them, right?
3) What's the difference 'tween an XV15 and XV25 stealth suit? I can't find that anywhere. The stealth team rules mention that there are two different suits, but don't make any distinction about which suit the rules they give are for, or anything about upgrading/switching the suits, etc.
In addition, I got creamed by me' mate's Tyranid army last night. He was usin' three Gaunt units, a Hive Tyrant morphed for ranged combat with a Strangler and a Venom Cannon equipped, and a pair of the 'Nid psyker units (forgot their names) that instakilled both my Broadside and my Shas'o commander near the end of the battle. I tore his Gaunts to shreads, but his Psykers and the Tyrant had 2+ armor, so only my Broadside was able to effectively fight 'em, and he got hit with the pyker's heavy blast attack, which is 10str, so he was toast. Any suggestions for the inevitable rematch? I was using a Cadre of a Shas'o, three XV8s, a Broadside, a team of 10 Fire Warriors with rifles, and a team of 5 Fire Warriors with Carbines. The Warriors did alright, but the big team got rushed by gaunts and sweeping-advanced into oblivion...:cry:
okokok. first things first.
1) the number of weapons /support systems is exact. at least 3 and only 3 for crisis (p.s. Twin Linked weapons take 2 slots)
2) we would all love to do this, but sadly double monting is illegal. twin linked only there (the guy with more than three systems is either as confused as you are or taking hard-wired wargear: be sure to read the battlesuit wargear options carefully)
3) there is one very important diffrence between them: the XV15 is Metal, the XV25 is plastic. they otherwise follow the same rules.
will post later but now I have to fly. good luck!
TAU PLAYER - GREY KNIGHTS PLAYER - WOOD ELVES PLAYER (kind of)
"Grey Knight terminators aren't 'good.' THEY'RE F****N AWESOME!!"
1)XV8's have three "hardpoints" which MUST be filled, with any combo of weapons and/or support systems the rules allow. In addition, team leaders and other highranking members of the army can generally hardwire at least one more support system. I don't have the new codex so I can't spell it out for you.
3) None really. One just looks WAY cooler than the other.
"I was using a Cadre of a Shas'o, three XV8s, a Broadside, a team of 10 Fire Warriors with rifles, and a team of 5 Fire Warriors with Carbines."
You are going to have to be more specific. What is the point size of this fight?
I am confused by "a Cadre of Shas'o."
Are you telling me you used more than one HQ (the most expensive in fact) in a small point game? Might want to downgrade and get some more FW.
Those FW squads should be maxed out and generally have rifles rather than carbines.
Also, FW force priority tests if they are in front of your broadsides.
AKA, the enemy can't just choose to fire at the Broadside if there are FW closer to it.
This isn't always the case though, so ask your friend about his units.
Flamers are always good against horde armies.
You, however, are Tau. FW with Pulse Rifles are your friend.
Sig by:Knape, The Celestial, and Marlinspike, thanks guys!
As a Tyranid player, I may be able to give a bit of help.
In my experience Tau have no problems whatsoever dealing with the small stuff. Only the big multi-wound models give them a bit of grief, especially with no insta-killing and making them not fall back or get pinned when in synapse range.
The best thing seems to be to use your crisis suit to come in a bit closer then use fusion and plasma as you can get enough shots out with these to get the wounds on the big stuff...
But I call to God, and the LORD saves me.
Cadre is the Tau term for a fighting-force in the Codex... just trying to be all fancy using Tau termonology and all. I was only using one Shas'o. The game was a 500-point seek-and-destroy.
Flamers against Nids are basically worthless. For any army.
Flamers are short ranged, if you can use them he can assault you. You dont want to assault large groups of gutter trash (gaunts). They will pin you down and overwhelm you with weight of numbers. They won't run due to Synapse, and even if by some miracle your Tau actually survive them, they will not survive the next horde that attacks while they are locked with the first group.
The only thing you have that *might* win against gaunts are your kroot hordes if they are maxxed, but that's it. If anything else hits you, warriors, Tyrants, Carnifex, genestealers, etc., that unit is dead. The only question is how long with that unit tie them up for. Tau do not last long in close combat.
May your aim be true, and your targets plentiful.
A rail Hammerhead is awesome vs. Tyranid. Good on small squishies, good on big baddies, and it can constantly dance out of range. Flechette discharger's also good in case you get cornered.
Hi welcome to the 40K world you may never leave.Originally Posted by Kardea
1 Equiping XV8 suits, basics first you must fill all 3 hardpoints with a combination of weapons or support systems, most people take two weapons and a support system, now if you upgrade an XV8 to team leader you get access to the stuff that does not need a hardpoint, gear like hardwired stuff such as HW multi trackers etc upto 100pts worth but you cannot duplicate support systems like targeting arrays to gain say +2 BS, if you upgrade further to Shas'Ui you get access to special issue wargear and only one of these can be taken per army.(the special issue wargear not the Sahs'Ui)
So a Shas'Ui could take a plasma, fusion, and shield generator (alll taking up a hard point) and HW multi tracker for instance. and if you like any other wargear that does not occupy a hard point up to 100pts worth,but with no duplication.
2 When you put weapons on a XV8 you can either take 1 of each different weapon type for each hardpoint, or 2 weapons of the same type that occupy 2 hardpoints but they fire as a twin linked weapon and count as one weapons system, and you can take another different weapon on the other hardpoint, you cant take three of the same weapon on an XV8. or you can take two weapons and a support system (again if you take two of the same weapon its counted as twin linked).
3 XV15's and XV25's are basically used under the same rules for stealth suits, they have access to all the same options regarding support systems and taking fusion blasters . The only difference is the actual model.
4 Advice about nids, well 1st of all learn how to use the independent character rules for your commander, and learn how to utilise jump shoot jump, the important thing to remember with IC (independent characters) is they cannot be singled out as a target if they are not the closest unit to the shooting unit, as long as you have another Tau unit closer your IC is totaly immune unless the targeting model has a special rule to allow selective targeting (such as a farseer or vindicare assassin), now you have jump shoot jump (JSJ) and this allows you amazing versitality you can sit behind a unit of fire warriors jump (and not be targeted) and jump over them shoot and then in the assualt phase jump back behind the fire warrior unit. A unit of drones is always a good unit to take with a Shas'O/El dont attach them to the shas'O (they stay as seperate units) and form the drones in a circle around him and he cannot be targeted or assaulted.
Use mobility to avoid the Nids, Broadsides are not good against nids, they are to slow and get chased down, I always use Hammerheads the submunnition round is a nids nightmare (STR6 AP4 large blast non scatter), use as much low AP weapons as you can (AP 1/2) on the XV8's and target the big nids with these as much as possible, target synapse creatures as much as possible, because once synpase is reduced the nids are taking tests every turn and it really hurts them.
Zoanthropes are easy to avoid they have max range 24" and warp blast STR10 is only 18" you should not be letting the zoans get that close, and the best way to kill them is with massed pulse rifle fire or the XV8 plasma and fusions, just keep away and use longer range weapons to nerf them.
The thing to watch with nids is speed they can close in a scarily fast fashion and there is only one real way to avoid this mobility, I use 2 units of FW on foot but I support them with Kroot and a unit in a Devilfish, the rest of the list is ultra mobile and hits hard, 2000pts I take 3 Hammerheads for the submunnitions and 4 XV8,s all with plasma/fusions and multi or twin fusions, Pirahnas for the speed and fusions/seekers, all fast and hard hitting.
Dont underestimate nid shooting, but they have one real weakness short range weaponry, only two weapons have a range of 36" and the others are 24" max, use this to your advantage, use the greater range of your weapons, 30" for pulse rifles, 72" for rialguns subs, 36" for the Missile pod, use your suits and vehicles mobility to keep away and take multi on HH so they can move 12" and still fire.
Do not get to close, if you get caught in CC with nids your screwed so avoid it at all costs, move FW backwards away from advancing nids, use Kroot as speed bumps.
Anyway thats basics, but post what models you have and we can give you more advice. Hope this helps
Firstly, welcome Kardea!
I play against Nids ALOT. With Tau. Some call me masochistic but I am always up for a good challenge. I also want to say that I have not yet had the chance to play with the new Tau codex rules so please take any following advice within that context.
When I frst started playing Tau at ther initial release, I had a static list similar to yours. Lots of FW on foot, suits and B'Sides. My regular Nid opponents also had lists very similar to your opponents.
I lost. ALOT. And badly. If there is one thing I can say about fighting Nids (especially with their not too distant Codex overhaul & 4th Ed rules) you cannot expect to stand firm and blast them into oblivion against even a moderatley skilled general. Their army is too fast, tough, shooty (yes, I said shooty!), and deadly in HTH (especially for us Tau) to set up static firing lanes & hope the guns do the job before they come to grips. Bacause as I see you found out, once they assault it is all over. The only Greater Good that happens at that point involves thickening their spawning pools.
So I have some suggestions that might make your list more competitive. Firstly look into a mechanized list. I know at small points games this is tough, but once you get to playing larger games it can be a lifesaver. It helped reinvigorate my love of the army after I had nearly given up on it.
Use a healthy dose of suits. Against your particular opponent a largish Stealth Team would be devastating. Markerlighting a stealth team for BS or Cover bonuses makes them a truly terrifiying prospect for Gaunts.
The crisis suits you will need to help take care of what I like to call "Tyranid Middle Management." They can also help out if equipped correctly with harrassing and maybe even downing some of his big grumblies running about. I love Elite Crisis teams with minimal upgrades and TL MP against Nids. The range, rate of fire, AP, and strength of those weapons make Warriors very nervous, and with a bunch of Gaunts on the field your Nid opponent needs his synapse. No synapse and long range Pulse Rifle fire equals running Gaunts.
Depending on your personal preferences and style of play, minimum sized Infiltrating Kroot can supply much needed speed-bumps to a tryranid advance. And if you can get the charge they might even surprise you on what they can do in an assault.
I do have some strong oppinions on the Tank entries of our list as well. Especially against Nids. If you need a tank, take an IonHead with Smart Missile System. If you are looking for Rail rounds use B'Sides. The twin-linking and revised shield drone rules can make them a very effective unit. Most of your rank and file shooting is going to be infinitely more effective at getting rid of large broods than a once a turn 66.7% pie plate. Same logic behind the IonHead. Not as effective against the big bugs, but the chances of hitting are much better with volume and splitting your fire with the Smart Missile System can be terribly frustrating for your opponent.
The only thing I can say with B'Sides against Nids is if you're going to use them take at least 2 squads. You will be able to shoot at more targets and your nid friends won't be able to take out all your Rails in one go. Preferable set them up on opposing areas of the board and make your opponent decide what to go after.
Anyhoo, actaully got to get going. Could post more later. Haven't even hit on Smart Missiles, Fast Attack, Pathfinders or all that good juicy stuff. Good luck, and don't worry - you are probbly fighting one of the toughest opponents for your army. It will take some time to figure out your best strategy for dealing with them, but it CAN be done (especially on Objective Missions). And in the meantime will make you a much sharper general yourself!
Alright, I've got another question for 'ye (though thanks a ton for the first answers... it's already helpin'.)
New question: how do shield drones work? I see that they get an invulnerablility save, but it appears that it is only for the drone itself. Does it confer this save on the unit, or are the drones there to 'take the hit' so to speak?