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in my old army lists kroot were an important flanking and countercharging unit, but it seems even at that their terrible I makes them prettymuch useless against most army you are going to play.
Thats why I made the switch to Vespid(tm)
They are fast as hell, have a decent weapon, and attack first more often than not in close combat, I love them.
Tell me your stories
All of which makes me anxious, sometimes unbearably so
personally I like the added marine/necron killers slightly more than the kroot.
plus vespids not only work well in a more mech tauish army, but also can easily counter those annoying assult marines every space marine player has.
I just can't see Vespids as anything other than a suicide unit unless you base your entire army around them--which means no pathfinders and the models are too ugly anyway.
I grant that Kroot aren't much better but they are still effective and can do nice things like hold a flank for one more turn, not to mention being cheap Troop choices.
"My tanks have names, my men have numbers." -Col. Edmund Grahvess, 23rd Kronecker Prison Guard
OK People here is my shindig. I do not have a full army with all the new stuff, in my old army (the one I use) i have 28 kroot in 2 squads of 14. Personally to me I think the Vespid are naught more than a distraction. Remember, Vespid do have a WS 3 and a Str 3 so they need 4 and 5 to wound a SM, and they have no Power Weapons WHATSOEVER, so SM do get their save. 10 Vespids, 5 hits, 2 wounds, 1 dead On average. Although their weapon is good, it totally leaves them open to an enemy assault. Think you cant be more than 12" away to use it. IMO, Vespid are good for halting asault troops for one turn.
Kroot. Many people misuse the Kroot's GREATEST ability. Fieldcraft. Since you have a say in the terrain, put a Giant ass forest right smack dab in the middle of the map. Infiltrate your kroot, and viola! a really cool barrier. Since Kroot can fire 12" out of cover, you can put them 12" in a forest, and shoot at enemies 24" away. Best of all, they cant shoot Back! (except with ordanance) Even then, you get a 5 up invulnerable save. Now as soon as an enemy get into the forest, double tap them. On their turn, you have a one in 36 chance of them charging you. Good Odds. Your next turn, assault them and benefit from over 56 attacks! (10 Kroot, 12 Hounds) Since you are in cover, you get to go first (I think, Please someone correct me) Wow, no doubt a good killer.
I presented the facts as best I could and I hope you see Vespid suck and Kroot rule.
I usually just play on a board split in two with impassable, but see through terrain and set my static tau 25 inches away.Originally Posted by bobotheguy
All of which makes me anxious, sometimes unbearably so
I use Kroot and will not be using vespid.
I have the same thoughts as bobotheguy. I put them in forest/jungle type cover and they never leave it, and shoot at what they can. If they get ignored, then I've got a complete unit for victory points, a table corner, or holding an objective.
Vespid seemed good at first (becuase of the AP of their gun), but careful inspection reveales big flaws. Honestly, I'd rather have the same points worth of gun drones.
I know one guy who used Vespids to great effect. I've seen him wipe out 16 strong Guant squads with a comprable unit of the Buggers.
I personally use Kroot (as I had the Kroot from the old Codex, and haven't gotten and Vespids yet). Both serve thier roles, and you should try out both to see which you play best with.:yes:
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Kroot are now a very versatile unit, they still have the option of sitting in woods and shooting and counter attacking any unit that assualts my FW units, but with the improved rules for both Kroot and Hounds they are even a viable assault unit, a hounds point cost is even less than a gaunt and it has good INT good WS, good STR and can infiltrate, they no longer take up a seperate force slot and the amount that can be taken is also good (12) 36 point for 36 attacks on the charge at impressive WS etc is amazing value (who cares if they die) 1 point per attack.Originally Posted by Otsego
Also the INT of the hounds means they will stop a lot of attacks hitting the actual Kroot which means they get to be more effective in CC, just run the hounds into B2B and have the Kroot as 2" support (they still get all their attacks), also the hounds INT can be used for chasing down a beaten unit and finishing them of.
I really want to see the unit that can stand 56 attacks on the charge and outnumber 24 models.
Use a unit of 10 Kroot for the shooting and have 12 Hounds for CC, use them as infiltrating units and watch the opponent think twice about venturing into that area of the field, keep them in cover until an assault is viable or even better let them be assaulted in cover.
The only thing to watch out for is leaving the unit in the open because they do not take shooting that well.
I really cannot think of any reason to take Vespids over this unit, I have proxied Vespids (thought they sounded good) and they were crap, they just got shot to pieces by any decent opponent.
I am considering dropping a unit of FW and taking another 20 strong squad of Kroot to support the 10 strong Kroot squad with 12 hounds I am already using, I will have 2 units of FW(1 in DF) and a unit of static Kroot (20 with Kroot ox) and a mobile infitrating assualt squad of Kroot/Hounds. I think this will be a very powerfull combo.
I must say that when Vespid are used correctly and effectively they can be useful, but very rarely are they used this way, Kroot are just more effective, versatile, and cheaper. Go with Kroot people
Vespid are just as fragile as everything else in our army, except they are designed to operate (in combat) within 12 inches of the enemy. Their preferred enemy is anything with a 3+ save, granted there are a lot of of enemeies with a 3+ save. They can be used to great effect and are interesting. That said, I would take kroot over Vespid 9/10 times. Kroot are more of an all round useful units while Vespid are not. Vespid are much like Crisis Suit weapon load outs. You make the rest of your army first, then fill the holes. Have a gaping hole in the anti-3+ save department and don't want to put it on your Crisis Suits? Need a fast objective grabber?
Then use the Vespid.
Sig by:Knape, The Celestial, and Marlinspike, thanks guys!