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If you couldn't tell from the thread name, I'd like some thoughts or suggestions on dealing with indirect fire.
My most common opponent is IG, and he just loves his basilisks, griffons, and mortar teams. Whether or not I get first turn, the barrages make it extremely hard for me to focus my army for fear of giant templates falling from the heavens. My friend also likes to stick lascannon and missle launcher teams around the basilisks, so that even if I do get within 36", I end up getting zerged by guardsmen or simply shot to pieces. I've tried deep striking suits, but the end up landing on pointy guardsmen bayonets or scattering off the board most of the time. The few times they do land, they're effective, but because of that, my friend's learned to spread out his guardsmen even more.
One forum search I did turned up a thread on dealing with defilers. The recommendations were deep striking suits and using hammerheads to flush out the indirect fire. However, the huge guardsmen screens and AT teams make that very hard. Any help you more experienced players can give would be great.
well, stealth squads work great for the infiltrating and killing off any lightly armoured tank or light armour unit (like guardsment mortar teams). just give 1 or 2 a fusion (I perfer 1), and everyone target arrays and they'll make back the 242pts easy.Originally Posted by Humhu
hammerheads work for mortar teams with their subumintion rounds.
as for the basalisk, remember, if it's firing indirect, it has a minimum fire range of like 36" or something (can't remember, and I don't feel like grabbing my guardsmen codex out of the pile). The defiler... oh, it could be so much better like in dawn of war... but currently it's just a pretty model. if anyone uses a difelier against you, just take a 2 fusion team stealth squad or something at it.
and remember, space out your units. deployment is what hurts indrect fire the most. they always scatter 2D6 when firing indirectly as well, so just space out units away from each other, and squads should keep 2" away from each member so if it does hit, it causes the least damage.
basically play smart and indirect fire shouldn't be too much of a proplem, and remember, if they abuse indirect, then you abuse infiltrate and get up in their face about it.
This is one of those places that I believe Kroot infiltration squads could be handy.
A well spread out squad, best placed in cover(to prevent high death tolls), close to the those pesky H.S. teams. Have these teams assault the mortar, Las-cannon teams. These teams cannot be shot at while engaged in an assault.
Using this in conjuction with deep striking Battlesuits will give your kroot a vitel support line, while disrupting the enemy battle line.
I might also suggest making the bulk of your force mobile. F.Warriors in Devilfish, Piranhas, hammerheads, Broadsides with the Advanced Stability system. If the IG player has spread his forces to thin, try and concentrate your force on individual and the most isolated parts of his/her line. Hit them hard and fast.
I hope this helps.
Knight of the W.R.
At the battle of Thermopylae, the king of Persia demanded the surrender of the Spartans and had sent a messenger to ask for their swords. The King of the Spartans replied with, "Come and take them"
It's already been said, but stealths are quite useful. If your opponent is so spread across the board you can't infiltrate close to the tanks, or jet pack easily to them, then you're not going to have very many options. Deep striking is useful but risky if the entire side of the board is covered.
Piranhas are your very last option for flying towards the back rows and nailing them with a fusion gun. the only problem with that is against IG you'll be shot down as soon as you get in LoS, so you'll only have a moment to take out the tank.
Ask yourself why in the world would you trust a win loss record? Playing them yourself is the only way to tell.
The true joy in the game is playing down to the last model, no matter the odds.
i suggest small squad sizes, and placing all the models close together. granted if one does land on you perfectly you are boned, but you have a good chance of it landing next to your (small) squad and doing nothing. I would vouch for infiltrating kroot, or speedy vespids, but i think the best plan is deepstriking gun drones.
the point of gun drones is to be stupid fodder, they can drop in very close to enemy lines (close enough that he may scatter onto his own troops, if you are not out of range) and stand up in close combat. against IG their shooting is lethal, it can even crack some tanks rear armor, and if he tries to ignore them it forces target priority checks(ig have pretty bad leadership, you could also use the gun drones from a devilfish and then try tank shocking him with it).
If he turns his force to blowing them up, so what? if a laz cannon shot takes out a gun drone, that is one good use of a gun drone. that shot could have onehitted a crisis suit or downed a hammerhead- good use of 12 points.
If he spreads his squads thin, i would not suggest dropping stealths or crisis suits on him. infiltrating stealths is a good idea, but you probably want to hide your crisis'. Rail heads are probably your best friend here, as they can remove the problem entirely.
All of which makes me anxious, sometimes unbearably so
Thanks for all the suggestions everyone. However, I'm still somewhat at a loss.
My buddies and I play a fairly cover heavy board; roughly 50-75% cover. This gives him plenty of buildings and hills to hide his lascannons and missle launchers behind, not to mention his basilisks. I use this cover to my advantage as well, however, but its main benefit for my skimmers (blocking LoS) is negated by the indirect fire. Yes, it does scatter 2D6" in that usage, but 1/3 of the time it hits, and much of the other time it either scatters onto the side/rear armor or the center stays on the skimmer.
I play a mech army, so all of my fire warriors are mounted, but I find that it often leads to them dieing faster when their devilfish gets popped. The annoying thing is, the surviving fire warriors end up getting shot at and run off the board, but pass by a stealth team I'm using to grab objectives due to their handy ability of not getting hit by indirect as much. This allows him to target the fire warriors and wipe out the stealth team fairly easily.
Since XV8's are such useless fodder against my friend, I think I'll try 3 teams of stealth suits, enough kroot to make him cry, and a suicide fusion blaster piranah or two.
Lol, I love the idea of a full stealth army ^^;; little expensive, but amusing.Originally Posted by Humhu
also, isn't max cover usage supposed to top out at like 50% terrain to total field area?
75% is like insane. they must not like tau...
Since you are playing a mobile force from the looks of it here is what I suggest.
If you have HH, gavethem a multitracker, and then you can move them 12" and STILL be able to shoot both the deadly Rail gun and BC/SMS Against this opponent, I suggest using Broadsides and keep them out of a 48" range of those lasconnans. Remember, yo have 72" they have 48" Use them to keep their tanks that do move back in cover As soon as one pops out, send 2 or 3 rail guns into it. Remember, they do have a 2+ armor save. The stealthsuits are a good idea, as are the Gun drones. My experiance however against Melta weapons is rather funny. Ive been attacked rear armor by meltas and have never lost a tank
Damn the greenbeans! -East of Eden
Black Templar W.I.P
actually, especially concidering their price, hammerheads are extremely resiliant (my friends complain about this all the time, the goddly hammerheads with railguns). not just because they have the highest armour values of any skimmer in the game (not counting monolith, don't get me started on monolith), but when their armour is pierced, you can basically only score a glancing hit against them. In close combat you're better off trying to hit the rear armour with bolters, as you need 6+ to hit.Originally Posted by bobotheguy
for the points, hammerheads are insanely good.
Do you play missions? It sounds as though your opponent is using his entire army just to protect his indirect fire, which willl really hurt his ability to take objectives and table corners.
Hammerheads and suicide suits are the best ways for Tau to handle the problem since we have no Indirect Fire of our own. Maybe try a couple turboboosting Pirahnas? Lasguns can't hurt them, after all.
Lastly, since you're Mech Tau why not try the ol' bum rush? Overload him with targets and engage at such close ranges that his artillery might scatter onto his own troops. This also puts you within the minimum range of (most of) his big guns. A Crisis Suit can hold its own in CC vs IG in a pinch.
I disagree with bobo about Broadsides. They will be completely useless against indirect fire vehicles, are a slow, fat points target and I recall the Basilisk being able to ignore their armor AND instantkill. That reminds me, put shield generators on all your XV8s that aren't solo.
"My tanks have names, my men have numbers." -Col. Edmund Grahvess, 23rd Kronecker Prison Guard