Saim-Hann or Ulthwé? - Warhammer 40K Fantasy

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  1. #1
    Senior Member MisterDutch's Avatar
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    Saim-Hann or Ulthwé?

    Hey,

    I think that I am quite sure now that I want to start an Eldar army. I have taken a look at the Eldar codex and then I found out about the different Eldar Craftworlds. I looked at the pictures of some of those, and the one that I found really appealing was the Saim-Hann. Those bikes and vehicles just look so cool. However, I heard that bikes suck and also that Saim-Hann armies can take not much elites and heavy support, and also a bit less troops. So, could I just use the normal Eldar army chart with the normal amount of troops/elites/fast attack/etc, and still call it Saim-Hann?

    Oh, and having little amount of foot troops I dont find that nice. (I just quit my Imperial Guard army ) Is it possible for Saim-Hann to still have a reasonable amount of infantery?

    And while Ulthwé doesnt look as cool (I mean speaking about color scheme) it can field more infantery, right? Would this be better than some kind of wanna be-Saim-Hann army with more infantery?


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  3. #2
    Member Spirit_Wolf's Avatar
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    I wouldn't get any figs yet untill november time as eldar as beening redone at the moment. I would wait the 2 or so months untill there new figs and codex comes out.

  4. #3
    Son of LO darkreever's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by MisterDutch
    So, could I just use the normal Eldar army chart with the normal amount of troops/elites/fast attack/etc, and still call it Saim-Hann?
    Sort of, browse through the craftworld eldar book to see the differences in the armies compared to the normal codex. Saim Hann force org is radically different because they do not use troop as required units first. (They have to take something else for a starting force where most armies need two troops and an HQ...)

    Depending on which Ulthwe you use, normal or strike force, ends up beefing up some of the stats of some of your units or some of the stats of all of your units.

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    Senior Member MisterDutch's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by Spirit_Wolf
    I wouldn't get any figs yet untill november time as eldar as beening redone at the moment. I would wait the 2 or so months untill there new figs and codex comes out.
    I want to start now and not any of the miniatures I'll get, are gonna get replaced (that is guardians, falcons, vypers, and bikes... and HQ) or at least that's what I heard.

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    Member mikes5420's Avatar
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    well either army is good but money wise Saim-Hann is really expensive because there troops are vypers and jet bikes so unless you have money and lots of it i say ulthwe
    A commander who puts his faith in heavy weapons alone will be outmanoeuvred. A commander who relies on close combat without support will lose his forces to enemy fire. Each element must work in harmony,so that the effectiveness of the army is greater than the some of its part.

  7. #6
    Son of LO LordLink's Avatar
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    Well since your getting troops now theres not really much advice to give. No-one on these forums has any idea how the new codex will look (except da mighty camel of course! ).

    Theres not really any advice we can give that wont be outdated come (november?). Yes Saim-Hann sucks but that could easily change with the codex.

    I'd just say don't buy anything and if your insistant buy anything in the codex.
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    Ok first off Saim Hain doesn't suck as they can make a vicious Vyper force (or so I've heard).

    However to answer Dutch's question, sure you could just use the regular army list and call it Sam Hain and use their paint scheme. Just make sure if you go to a tournament(or in general really) make sure people know what list you're using.

    My advice if you want to start now would be to start from a battleforce. I'm given to understand that the price will be dropping in July (any confirmation on that anybody). That will make it a good deal and even if you drop a number of the models from it you still come out ahead money wise (for example I haven't even painted up my bikes).

    The only trick is that before too long new heavy weapons platforms will be coming out, and those could be a better deal than the existing ones, so maybe you should start off by getting, at most.

    1 battleforce
    1 fire prism (talk to darqwing about magnetizing it. You'll want to use it as a falcon for now, but probably a fire prism later)
    1 Wave serpent (good vehicle and the sprues it comes with will give you heavy weapons for the rest of your force)
    2 farseers with singing spears (one could later be turned into a warlock by trimming the antlers)
    2-3 warlocks with singing spears (you could just get a seercouncil and save money if you're willing to play with converting swords to spears, it isn't hard just put a sprue section in as a shaft).

    This will let you make a fun flexible 1000pt army and then when the new codex comes out you'll be in a solid position to evolve into an awsome 1500 pt army (remeber with the battleforce you aren't out money if you leave some of the models you got behind). Just be absolulty sure when you're putting your pieces together to leave things open to conversion(by magnetizing, gluetac, rubber cement, or only a slight amount of superglue in a couple spots instead of laying it on).

    The army (for now) would look like.

    2 falcons with sarcannon, shurican cannons, holofileds and spirit stones
    1 wave serpent with twin linked bright lances and spirit stones
    1 vyper with eldar missle launcher/scatterlaser or starcannon if you left one off of a falcon, you can change this later when you get more heavy weapons)
    2 farseers on jetbikes, often they can't be targeted as they're ICs, and you can play around a lot with different psychic powers/warger. For example they could hide behind falcons and guide them or send them off hunting tanks with spears, or have them pop out and mindwar.
    3 squads of guardians with some warlocks in squad sizes so they can fit in the falcons and waveserpent. They're fairly cheap and can unload a lot of shots if they get a chance, eventually you'll likely give them weapon platforms but who knows, for now you've got them so try them out, they're pretty cheap anyway.


    This army would give you good training in eldar thinking, and has the sam hain rapid movement feel. We aren't a force that just sits around braindead firing battlecannons/railguns, standing out of cover in battle armor, or moving toward the enemy at full pace every turn. The eldar army is all about denying your opponent the ability to use their army to it's full potential (you should have all your units shooting every turn but only half of theirs should get the same opportunity, and, especially with this army, if you face a cc army just play keep away while fireing away). Just make sure the board has the suggested 25% terrain coverage!
    Last edited by sunnyside; June 19th, 2006 at 18:01.

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    Senior Member Microcosm's Avatar
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    wouldn't take bikes, i mean, they are a single guardian with a synchronized shuriken catapult and thats it. doesn't do much damage for it's cost....

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    Senior Member MisterDutch's Avatar
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    Sunnyside, thanks alot for that awesome and slightly large post. I indeed got a battleforce. I will be painting it up completely before I'm getting anything more, since I tend to buy more than I can gather to will to paint (thus leaving me with half painted armies) About the fire prism I heard it sucks, but if I can get enough materials to be able to switch it into a Falcon with this 'magnetizing' you speak of (which I assume involves using little magnets to click the different weapons to a falcon so that you can have 1 falcon, and each battle still switch weapons?) then I will consider it. but for now, I certainly dont want to buy too much, because I want to get a grasp of tactics and experience, AND paint the soldiers, BEFORE I buy too much and can't get it painted or dont have the experience to use it well, yet

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    Quote Originally Posted by Microcosm
    wouldn't take bikes, i mean, they are a single guardian with a synchronized shuriken catapult and thats it. doesn't do much damage for it's cost....
    Just guardian bikes suck for now. But

    1. Supposedly they will get better in the new codex.
    2. Even now a farseer on a jetbike is a flexible, potent, and very annoying to your enemy model. If you're creative and carefull you can make a bike and get a regular farseer and go back and forth between having him mounted or not.

    Quote Originally Posted by Misterdutch
    About the fire prism I heard it sucks, but if I can get enough materials to be able to switch it into a Falcon with this 'magnetizing' you speak of (which I assume involves using little magnets to click the different weapons to a falcon so that you can have 1 falcon, and each battle still switch weapons?)
    Thanks. It does suck......for now. The codex designers say they want to make it into more of a "hammerhead" type vehicle in the new codex, so you might want it. Anyway if you buy a fire prism what you get is a falcon and some extra bits for the fire prism weapon for the extra $5 it costs (the bits cost much much more if you buy them seperatly). And yes magnetization is using magnets to mount weapons instead of glue so you could go between a falcon and a fire prism in about 10 seconds after reading the new codex.

    If you're up for it I might advise adding just the waveserpent to your battleforce. It's a generally usefull vehicle that could later be converted into a falcon or maybe even a fire prism and in the meantime can make those guardians useful and give you the heavy weapons you need to make the battleforce viable. Also it's a joy to model and paint compared to guardians.

    With just one farseer and the serpent you could make.

    1 falcon w star and shuri cannons, holofield, spirit stone
    1 vyper w starcannon
    1 waveserpent with brightlances and spirit stone
    1 jetbike farseer
    10 guardians in the serpent and 6 in the falcon


    That would be a nice 650 pt force

    Without the serpent you'd be able to make (if I remeber what things come with right).

    1 jetbike farseer
    1 falcon with scatter laser and twin linked shuri catapaults holofield spirit stones
    1 vyper with scatter laser
    6 guardians for falcon
    up to 14 guardians on the ground

    In my opinion this would make for a pretty weak 500pt army (well it'd do fine against maybe orks, but you'll have a ***** of a time against space marines. *Edit, huh I wouldn't have thought they'd censor that word.)

    Oh and you might want to consider a crystal targeting matrix for the vyper. It makes it a little pricey but they can survive a lot better with one assuming you play the terrain right.

    Sorry about the long posts, any of the rest of you disagree with me on any of this?
    Last edited by sunnyside; June 19th, 2006 at 20:17.

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