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Does anyone else think that the Ork statline is a bit off? Orks are pretty darn strong so you think they'd be strength 4, the same as a souped-up human (Space Marine). The models and the fluff would agree with this. However, orks are not particularly skilled fighters. Although they love battle and have an inbred ability to fight well, most do not undergo extensive combat training. Thus, it would follow that that they would have a normal weapon skill of 3. If GW switched these stats it would pretty much even out points-wise. Does anyone agree/disagree? Any particular reason they haven't done this?
SM are more than just souped-up humans, the difference between 3 and 4 is huge, humans can crush a sodacan with Str3, SM can crush your skull with Str4.
WS isn't just beeing well trained, animal fight far better than people, barbaric races also fight far better and its the same with orks, they get to fight the moment they get up from the ground, having to fight all your life is the best sort of traning one can have.
and with a base of 2 attacks str4 would own to much
Make that 4 for when the sluggaboyz charge, take a good look at what a giant mob of skarboyz do when they charge, now imagine if your whole army does this for the price of your basic slugga boy.
Sigh... no. The attack characteristic represents their pure ferocity in combat. It would be too much to make them have 3 attacks and strength 4 before charging. Also, a weapon skill of 3 would make them die far too easily in combat. They are fine how they are.
"...a swarm of mechanised locusts sweeping over the land, stripping it bare of resources, bringing death and destruction to anything that stands in its path. Emperor preserve us against the predations of these so-called Orkish cults of speed!" - Cardinal Nomura at the Conclave of Hessen
Good arguments to be sure. However, I still disagree. Although SMs may be able to crush skulls like soda cans, take a look at the ork models and fluff. These boys are uge, and ripped. Pluss, they've got enormous choppas and other blades. I find it difficult to believe that a human with a bayonet is the same strength as an ork. And the kroot are stronger than our boyz?? That is crap. Gaunts can be stronger? Also not cool. Now I know that the choppa confers another bonus, but still, it seems implausible that orks would be str3.
As for their barbarity, yes, the orks are decently skilled fighters. They recieve no training other than fighting amongst themselves (which, granted, they do alot of). However, much of their ferocity is represented in their number of attacks (ferocity means attacking a whole bunch of times with rage, not being particularly skilled at thrusting and parrying). Thus, it would make sense to give them an average weapon skill of 3. Think about cadians for a second. They spend their whole lives training intensivly and come out with ws3. I couldn't see orks being much better. Also, ws 4 puts them on par with space marines, which are supposedly the most elite and best trained fighters around. Ws 4 on orks just dosen't add up in my book.
If you're looking at the issue in terms of game fairness, the argument that adding one str. and reducing the weapon skill by one would be unfair (give orks an advantage). This is possibly true. I think some playtesting would have to be done, and if this is found to be true, perhaps increasing the cost of boyz by one point would be appropriate.
I know ya'll might still disagree, and that is OK. It just irks me that my boyz have such puny strength!
Fluffwise there is a good argument for a str 4 ork. I have to disagree with your weapon skill of 3 though.
However going beyond the fluff to mechanics GW knew what they where doing. They where looking at a playstyle not just raw strenght. Orks have always been S3, and when they put out 3rd edition and made them into a more menacing CC focused army rather than the random funny army that they where in 2'nd edition. I'm sure they looked into boosting the strenght pretty seriously.
In the end however they decided to make them good at killing anything, but not devistating to anything in particular. The lower strength keeps them from being too hard on lower toughness models, and the choppa special rule still keeps them effective against harder targets desipte their modest strength. Sure they could have given them str 4, but in the end I suspect the cost would be the choppa not the WS 4. Personally I like them the way they are.
If you want str 4 orks, simple enough: play a Goff army full of scarboyz.
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Still, something like Furious Charge could make them more interesting to use
That is exactly what they need to do with orks. Have something like that with the Power of the Waaagh! You know, like up the attack and double the 'I' on the charge if they have enough boyz. Thats what they should do with the stats. Change them on the charge.Still, something like Furious Charge could make them more interesting to use
They should also have something like an extra d6" in the assualt phase to show there egerness to get into battle.
I know that sounds like they will be too powerful but it will only be on the charge and like I heard before it will make people play in a more creative way. So they can get that charge.
All religion, my friend is simply evolved out of fraud, greed, imagination and poetry.
- Edgar Allen Poe
I've always felt the stat line could be identical to the fantasy one, with elite choices getting 1 additional base attack. Strength for regular boys should be left at 3. If you raise regular boys to 4, then your Nobs would need to be strength 5, and your warboss would be strength 6. I think WS at 3 is fine as your still hitting on 4's, most likely hit by 3's unfortunately. Leadership is fine, intiative is good
40K-Beakies(9-14-4),Guard(4-7-2),Orks(34-12-11). FANTASY-Dwarves(15-6-7),Beasts (14-14-1), Skaven (17-17-10) DoC (6-1-2). CYGNAR (28-15-1)