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I was looking in the Tyranid Codex and it says all "lesser" creatures in broods have to test for Instictive Behaviour if they move. Broods meaning any choice with the word "brood" in it. Genestealer Brood, Gargoyle brood, etc.
However, I never thought this applied to Carnifexes as Carnifexes are certainly not "lesser" creatures.
So does everything in the Tyranid army that is NOT a synapse creature (and assuming are not in range of one) have to test for IB if they want to move?
The only nid we can be sure of are rippers are it mentiones thisw in their description, this is not the case for the either the lictor or the caenifex, they are fearless yes but that only provide immunity to morale checks, not Ld test.
Best is to play it that way until we finally get the FAQ so you don't get dissapointed when it's eventually released.
erm, just like to point something out, the tyranid use of the word "brood" is pretty much the same as any other race using the word "squad"
yes, the carnifex has to take instinctive behaviour outside of synapse because it is not a synapse creature.
and with the brood arguement...
check p. 46 of the 4th ed nid codex
brood: 1 carnifex
and to the extent of lesser creatures, the carnifex is a "lesser creature" in the tyranid point of view as it does not have a direct link to the hive mind (not a synapse creature)
so answer is, yes, everything, except ripper swarms that specifically state they do not, have to take IB tests outside of synapse
Nids: Hive Fleet Venom
I'm skeptical about this myself, as GW is far from perfect in their use of leadership and morale. Read the section in the BGB for morale checks due to 25% casaulties to shooting. It states that they have to take a "leadership" check. And that is clearly not a leadership check but a morale check... Fearless units don't have to take it, and non-fearless get the -1 modifier for being under half (which applies to morale only, not leadership checks).
Also begs the question, what about Last Man Standing checks? It states that it is a Leadership check, not a morale check... So no -1 modifier, but a fearless model has to take it if he was part of a squad? If so, what happens in that case if he fails?
ok found it
under nid special rules, in the 4th ed codex, it doesnt say "leadership tests" it says that nids in synapse that have to take a "leadership based" test automatically pass it, so any tests against a units leadership
if a fearless model fails it, he falls back as per normal, and since he is below half strength (being the last man, and definately below half strength) hes going to stay that way
Last edited by Dark_exCal; July 15th, 2006 at 17:53.
Nids: Hive Fleet Venom
except fearless units never fall back, so surely they would lurk instead?
Models which start the game as 1 man are exempt from the last man rule.
Although it would be funny to see an obliterator teleport into battle and then run away because his mate was still on the bus.
LO RulesOriginally Posted by AnonymousOriginally Posted by Cyric
This is a very much asked question and if you search for questions on instinctive behavior there are a ton of threads on them.
Time to clear some things up.
Although technically lictors, spore mines and carnifexes and every other non-synapse or brood telepathy creatures are required to take an instinctive behavior test, if they fail, the lictors, spore mines and carnifexes do not fall back because being fearless also says that they will not fall back. Therefore, although they take the test, they don't suffer failing consequences and there is nothing to prevent them from moving after that. This can actually be a good thing since it means outside of synapse range, they have the ability to lurk without the downsides of trying to move.
The only exceptions to this synapse lack besides brood-telepathy are ripper swarms. In their entry it specifically says that they are fearless and do not obey the rules for instinctive behavior.
This is what most people are going by until a FAQ comes out to say different.
Last edited by Warrior47; July 15th, 2006 at 21:39.
Originally Posted by The Paint Monkey
Spore Mines are a different case entirely. They move without volition, whereas movement subject to Instinctive Behaviour Tests is purely voluntary. Note the wording of the rule: "If you want to move that brood for any reason. . ." Spore Mines move whether you want them to or not; you don't have a choice in the matter. Other units move only when you desire that they move (unless they're Falling Back, which is once again movement without volition).
Why do the survivors remain anonymous -- as if cursed -- while the dead are revered? Why do we cling to what we lose while we ignore what we still hold?
Name none of the fallen, for they stood in our place, and stand there still in each moment of our lives.
--Duiker, "Deadhouse Gates"
I'm not sure I agree with this, want to move or have to move. You say pot'A'to I say potato. I think thats too precise an reading of the rules. Want to move or have to move is just playing the game by the rules. Almost all units in any army move when you want them not on a non-voluntary basis. The fact that spore mines must move wouldn't make them immune to instinctive tests because the rules aren't likely to be specific enough to point that out.Originally Posted by Ostsol
As far as the whole do they or do they not take instictive tests is concerned I think no, the Carnifex, spore mine and Lictor don't test. I think this because if they do test there is simply too much room for interpretation as to what they are supposed to do. I mean they are fearless fail an instinctive test so do they lurk or fall back. Fearless models don't fall back but is this an exception to the rule or is it not, apparently only if we want it to be. All of this is down to us trying to figure it out and there is no cast iron explanation in the codex. If directions are not in the codex I cannot follow them.
The rippers are fearless and according to the codex immune to instinctive tests as a direct result. However does this apply to other models, I don't see why not but others do. I have read that it is not because of fearless though it is stated it is. I think the best way for people to deal with this is to think what they honestly believe about this and not just what they want. If people can explain thier ideas to an opponent convincingly that will be good enough.
Rippers are also mindless.... it is mindlessness that gives them immunity to instinctive Behavior tests. Genestealers are immune due to brood telepathy as are biovores... Synapse Creatures are immune and all other creatures within 12" of a synapse creature are. That is the complete list of who is immune to Instinctive tests... Anything else is just wishful thinking. The rule is in there for balance purposes and a little bit of fluff.... However if the Carnifex and Lictor were immune it would say so in their entry, it doesn't.Originally Posted by Leech
As for what happens should they(fearless units) fail (its only happened once that i've seen and i was playing against tyranids at the time), The unit stands still as in the fearless entry it states that fearless creatures do not fall back, so while they must take a test aiken to a stupidity test, they will not run away because there scared they simply don't know what to do and so will just stand there.... (fluff). Everyother creature seeks out the guidance of the Hivemind by running towards a synapse creature....
As Leech said play it how you see it, This is how i play it, this is how I see it, Hopefully I can convince you that my view is right, cos i'm like that. Most of all if you find it imbalanced one way or another go with the other way...
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